Does anyone believe Scalar Electromagnetic Waves Exist?

[jimmydasaint]

I was amazed to read about scalar, longitudinal electromagnetic waves as I have never heard of them before. However, I was casually looking through the web and found this:

 

The anomalous weather worldwide is not accidental. In superpotential theory, which was initiated by a paper by E.T. Whittaker in 1904, it is possible to produce EM force fields and force field energy at a distance. Whittaker 1904 showed that all EM fields and waves can be decomposed into two scalar potential functions. It follows that, by assembling two such scalar potential functions in beams, one can produce a "scalar potential interferometer" where the potential beams intersect at a distance. In that interference zone, ordinary transverse EM fields and energy appear.

 

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sai/Beard_wmod.htm

 

My questions are: Do such waves exist? If they do, what sort of properties would they show and how could you detect them?

[ajb]

I don't think there is any experimental evidence for them. What is wrong with standard electromagnetism? It has been show to be correct to some silly order of magnitude viz quantum electrodynamics.

 

Can you find a "proper" description of this? I mean a clear statement of the field content, the Lagrangian and a discussion of any symmetries.

 

I am interested how one can get something like a gauge theory without vector fields!

 

Must add that that this theory is not to be confused with scalar field theory or scalar electrodynamics. The first is the theory of a spin-less field and the second the theory of a spin-less field coupled to standard electromagnetism.

[jimmydasaint]

I have not understood more than a few words of what you have written man except for 'fields' and 'electromagnetism' - teach me in simple K12 language please.

[ajb]

What I am asking is "what the heck are Scalar Electromagnetic waves and what is Scalar Field Theory? "

 

Without knowing a little more, it is impossible to give definite answers. But I suspect that Scalar Field Theory is bogus. Otherwise I would have come across paper on it on SPIRES etc.

[jimmydasaint]

From my original reading, I thought these were longitudinal EM waves as opposed to standard EM waves which are transverse and that Maxwell had a complete set of equations relating to them. However, they are quite firmly in the world of pseudoscience at the moment but the Russians are 'apparently' using this technology. I see your problem about scalar fields because it seems like nonsense doesn't it? Bearden is prolific in his belief that these exist:

 

http://www.rhfweb.com/scalarwv.html

[ajb]

Your link show absolutely no mathematics. Also, a quick "google" does not help. I am sure it is just bogus and you are better off learning about more accepted ideas.

[jimmydasaint]

You are right. I have also googled it and not found anything of any rigour to support it. This is why I posted this enquiry in Pseudoscience. However, can you comment on what this guy says, extract:

When Maxwell wrote his theory, everyone (all 35 or so of the good electrodynamicists; that’s all there were!) assumed the material aether (a material fluid filling all space). In other words, they thought that there was no place in all the universe that was devoid of mass. Period. So all the EM entities are DEFINED as mass entities: Electrodynamicists today do not actually have anything to say – anything at all! – about the form of EM entities in mass-free space. Even the scalar potential’s magnitude at a point is defined as the energy in joules collected upon an intercepting point Coulomb at that point. In other words, they have confused the magnitude of the water-collected in/on a standard bucket from a raging river, as the magnitude of the water in the river at the dipping point! The scalar potential itself isn’t even a scalar entity! It’s a multiwave, multivector entity. It’s a bunch of bi-directional rivers of EM energy, flowing in both directions at once. Of course, how much of that flow is diverged by (collected upon) an intercepting Coulomb, is a scalar value! But that has nothing to do with the magnitude of the potential itself, just the magnitude of how much is dipped from it by a standard bucket.

 

http://www.rhfweb.com/scalarwv.html

 

In the meantime I will google for scholar atricles...

 

Her's one you can get using your academic account. Hope this is right.

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRD/v35/i4/p1533_1

Edited July 5, 2008 by jimmydasaint

[Motor Daddy]

Your link show absolutely no mathematics. Also, a quick "google" does not help. I am sure it is just bogus and you are better off learning about more accepted ideas.

 

Can the math be correct and the concept be wrong?

[ajb]

Can the math be correct and the concept be wrong?

 

In the sense that the theory is mathematically consistent, but does not describe nature very well? For sure.

[Klaynos]

Can the math be correct and the concept be wrong?

 

It depends what you mean by concept?

 

Generally in physics the maths is the concept.

[Norman Albers]

If there is a response from the polarizable vacuum such as I analyze, the wave packet has a scalar-longitudinal mode as well as the transverse modes. SECONDLY; Maybe ten years ago I read a brilliant article in the Piano Technician's Journal (USA) written by a Russian, describing longitudinal modes in piano strings, and identifying these as the "wolves" heard in octave two of some grand pianos. Having wrestled with these as a working tuner, I was fascinated. I think these were characterized as non-tunable, to large extent. They are just there sometimes and you may or may not find good tuning to make different notes consistent. A fine grand piano thus has unique character.

[JMessenger]

I was amazed to read about scalar, longitudinal electromagnetic waves as I have never heard of them before. However, I was casually looking through the web and found this:

 

The anomalous weather worldwide is not accidental. In superpotential theory, which was initiated by a paper by E.T. Whittaker in 1904, it is possible to produce EM force fields and force field energy at a distance. Whittaker 1904 showed that all EM fields and waves can be decomposed into two scalar potential functions. It follows that, by assembling two such scalar potential functions in beams, one can produce a "scalar potential interferometer" where the potential beams intersect at a distance. In that interference zone, ordinary transverse EM fields and energy appear.

 

 

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sai/Beard_wmod.htm

 

My questions are: Do such waves exist? If they do, what sort of properties would they show and how could you detect them?

 

Just as a comment, Faraday theorized that light waves have a pair of co-traveling wavefronts (to account for bi-refringence) but I don't think it necessarily follows that these wavefronts could be separated and "intersect at a distance".

Edited December 13, 2012 by JMessenger