Perpetual Motion

[Xain]

im not sure on where to put this

but i was thinking of a way to make it or something halfway decent with magnets and whatnot

 

bt i was curious

 

can you have just a south pole on a magnet?

and just a north?

 

and how would i go about storing energy in a bettery from a revolving wheel with a copper coil?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

As far as we know, there's no way to make a magnet with only one pole (a "monopole"). Nobody's ever seen one.

[Xain]

i was thinking about a bikewheel shape, with 7-8 spokes(im not sure if numbers matter)

adn a large elecrtomagnet on the bottom so it doesnt wear out as fast as the others, then a copper ciol around the magnet in the middle of the spoke

[Klaynos]

And how do you power the electromagnet?

 

And no, magnetic monopoles don't exist.

[Xain]

i would power it with the energy from the rotating magnets on the copper coils

[Klaynos]

It'd quite quickly stop rotating then. And it wouldn't be an electromagnet then just a coil.

[Xain]

give it a push

one pole pulls magnet #1

the other pole pushes magnet#2

they rotate, generate electricity and send the eletricity to the elecro magnet

 

would this work?

if not then why?

[Klaynos]

No, friction and losses in teh wire and electromagnet... There's probably other reasons too, but they in themselves are killers.

[Xain]

if i put it in a very efficent vacuum?

 

and what do you mean by losses?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Unless the electromagnet is superconductive (in which case you'd need a refrigeration plant to keep it running) it'll lose some energy to electrical resistance.

[Klaynos]

if i put it in a very efficent vacuum?

 

and what do you mean by losses?

 

losses as Cap'n Refsmmat explained.

 

And you can't create a perfect vacuum. You'd also have to screen it from everything which would be pretty much impossible,

[Xain]

i can run it through a circuit board to amplify the electricity

 

and i was thinking about a vacuum thats better then just sitting in the open

anything to help the machine

 

note, this is my first project thats even close to this

closes project would be a breadboard i did 5 years ago

[Klaynos]

You can't magically amplify the electricity, you'd need to have some input, and you'd still have losses the circuit board would heat up.

 

A partial vacuum would reduce the friction, but there is still friction between all the moving parts. And pertetual motion requires it to run forever, and that's before you even start removing energy from the system to do work.

[Xain]

you cant amplify it by running it though certain components?

 

with the friction:

have magnets spaced around a tube so that it floats around the rod

[Klaynos]

you cant amplify it by running it though certain components?

 

with the friction:

have magnets spaced around a tube so that it floats around the rod

 

No you can't, you either have less energy, or some method of adding energy. That's why things like op-amps have power connectors.

 

There'd still be friction, and how do you make teh magnets float?

[Kyrisch]

I used to have an idea for a perpetual motion machine because that was before I learned the concept of Conservation of Energy. The energy content of a system never changes. Therefore, since SOME energy will be lost to heat (due to friction, imperfect vacuum, etc.) it will EVENTUALLY stop, even if it runs for a while.

[Xain]

have the magnets in a circle with one pole point towards the rod, they will all have even force and pull away from the rod in every direction

 

ill make a diagram

[Kyrisch]

Earth magnets slowly become apolarised. Electromagnets are extremely energy inefficient.

[Xain]

what do you mean apolarised?

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b246/ishvid/PM2copy.jpg

thats looking from the bottom of the unit

its very simple

 

theres so much i cant put on there in ps

i need some kind of 3d design thing to show you

[John Cuthber]

Magnets don't stay magnets forever, they lose their power.

Any moving conductive object in a magnetic field will have eddy currents induced in it. If the material isn't a superconductor then these will draw energy from the system.

 

The system will end up stationary but slightly warmer than it was.

[Xain]

well, i give into the idea of perpetual motion for now

 

but soon it will be possible im sure

[insane_alien]

not unless the 2nd law of thermodynamics can be broken which has never been observed anywhere.

 

and if it can be it will involve some obscure quantum mechanical type thing and not a couple of magnets, bit of stickyback plastic and a yoghurt pot. (reference to blue peter, a kids tv show, for those not in the uk)

[Xain]

ok,

but in the future its not possible to to bend, or even break a law?

 

i think it can be done, regardless of what the laws say, but as of this point in time after all that has been said, it seems almost impossible

so with that, ill try and make something that at least lasts a long time

[swansont]

ok,

but in the future its not possible to to bend, or even break a law?

 

i think it can be done, regardless of what the laws say, but as of this point in time after all that has been said, it seems almost impossible

so with that, ill try and make something that at least lasts a long time

 

Conservation of energy is equivalent to the laws of physics being invariant in time. So if you expect this to happen, physics has to change.

[Xain]

shouldent physics be changing then they use the LHC assuming it doesnt kill us?