Nitrogin fertiliser

[danie]

N2 is importint for growing crops. It is normally prodused as by product in the oil indistru ad with the Harbour process. As the air contain 70 % N2 why cant we produse it cheaper. Think about plasma reactors. Rf or ac. Is there anybody out there looking at the economics.

[frosch45]

You're right that [ce]N2[/ce] is important for growing crops, but only when it has been "fixed"--that is, turned into a nitrate compound.

 

And nitrogen really isn't that hard to produce. As I said, certain bacterial species can convert nitrogen to nitrates, which is really what is necessary as far as a fertalizer goes, but the biggest problem with pulling nitrogen out of the air is that it is mixed with oxygen and carbon dioxide and water vapor and some noble gasses as well as some other compounds, so it is difficult to just "pull it out" of the air. Thats why you have to have something like a bacteria (or a chemical scrubber) that will pull the nitrogen out of the air without touching the other gasses. Once you have a material with nitrogen in it isolated (like ammonia or a nitrate or nitrogen oxides) then you could convert it directly back to nitrogen through a variety of means.

Edited July 16, 2008 by frosch45
spelling

[danie]

Yes , I am looking at ways to fix the nitrogen. Some crops can (soyo, lucern, peas and some bacteria) can fix it. The electric discharge from lighning can also fix it . What I want to know is if it is possible to use a something like the well known ozone generator to ionise the N2 and then desolve it in water and irrigate crops with the nitrogen enriched water. I know that you can use RF plasma to dissisoate the N2 into ions. I want to know if any work has been done on the process.

[CharonY]

Biologically fixed nitrogen is not a nitrate but ammonium:

N2 + 8H+ + 8e− + 16 ATP → 2NH3 + H2 + 16ADP + 16 P

 

The Haber-Bosch process is used industrially to fix nitrogen (again the actual fixation step a catalysed reaction between nitrogen and hydrogen).

 

 

Legumes cannot fix nitrogen themselves, but root nodule bacteria, collectively called rhizobia, are responsible for it. Actually I do not any plants that are able to fix nitrogen all by themselves.

[frosch45]

Well, you sound like you are looking at something professional, so you could probably get a liscence to buy the bacteria. There are several internet suppliers, and if you do an internet search I'm sure that you could find the exact species that fix efficiently.

[CaptainPanic]

As the air contain 70 % N2 why cant we produse it cheaper. Think about plasma reactors.

 

Creating a nice plasma for producing bulk chemicals is not very cheap, which is exactly why it's not being used.

 

Plants like nitrogen in the form of NH4+ or NO3-

These are better produced from other feedstock, and not N2. (It's cheaper, people have already looked into the economics, really!)

 

It just costs too much energy to use N2... but it's true that there's a LOT of it. Pity we just can't use it for much

[CharonY]

That is why rhizobia-legume symbiosis rulez