Sexual behavior of adolescents

[Taktiq]

Not to start another thread about pedophiles and such but I was having a discussion with another officer and was wondering, among all the cases of internet based sexual solicitations between adolescents and adults are there any cases someone here can point me to that shows where in a small percentage of the cases (and I know it will be a very small percentage) the adolescent was the aggressor?

[antimatter]

Why, may I ask, does this interest you...?

[Taktiq]

There was a discussion started about those "Catch A Predator" shows on NBC. I have a feeling that due to adolescents maturing earlier, that in some instances the juvenile may have IN SOME very small instances have initiated the contact as opposed to what's stated by those shows (and not including the 14yr olds who work with the police).

 

Also, are there studies which show juveniles today are maturing physiologically and psychologically earlier?

 

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...but if there are cases out there, could someone point them out? If there are none, just delete, lock, etc this thread so it doesn't descend into lunacy like many others.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Taktiq

[Mag]

Im sure there are.

I wouldnt be at all surprised if there are cases where the adolescent begins a sexually-directed conversation.

But whether those people (the adults) are arrested for it, is a different story.

 

And yeah, I think you can find articles on that fact that kids are, at least physiologically maturing faster than previous decades.

[Taktiq]

Im sure there are.

I wouldnt be at all surprised if there are cases where the adolescent begins a sexually-directed conversation.

But whether those people (the adults) are arrested for it, is a different story.

 

And yeah, I think you can find articles on that fact that kids are, at least physiologically maturing faster than previous decades.

 

I see what you're saying. As far as articles or studies on maturation, if you ever run across any, could you send 'em my way? I've been searching everywhere and I don't think I'm finding anything because I don't know how to go about doing it with any real accuracy.

[iNow]

Isn't waiting longer to have sex a relatively recent phenomenon in the history of humans? I mean, most animals, us included, tend to have sex the moment their hormones take over and they are in/through puberty.

 

It's only during the last few centuries that puritanical values and religiously dictated behavioral restrictions have been pushed on people causing them to wait longer until having sex. For millenia, however, that's not been the case. For most of the existence of humans, we had sex as soon as we were able.

[Deja Vu]

It's only during the last few centuries that puritanical values and religiously dictated behavioral restrictions have been pushed on people causing them to wait longer until having sex.

 

It's been going on for longer than a few centuries, more like a couple of thousand of years. The religions that place the most restrictions on sexual activities are certain sects of Christianity and Islam. But they weren't the only ones. In Greco-Roman tradition, there were women who were chosen to be "Vestal Virgins", priestesses who were NEVER allowed to have sex.

 

For millenia, however, that's not been the case. For most of the existence of humans, we had sex as soon as we were able.

 

Not really. For most of human existence there were always cultural restrictions, or rules, in some form on sexual activity and promiscuity, especially on women. Not only on how long they should wait, but also on the actual activity itself.

 

 

This by the way is completely off topic. The OP was not asking about sexual restrictions.

 

I see what you're saying. As far as articles or studies on maturation, if you ever run across any, could you send 'em my way? I've been searching everywhere and I don't think I'm finding anything because I don't know how to go about doing it with any real accuracy.

 

I don't know if there are any studies done on whether humans have matured faster than before. Reproductive age is the same now as it has been for most of our existence. However, certain groups of people are known to mature faster than others. One example would be that of girls, in that they tend to mature faster than boys on average.

 

Not to start another thread about pedophiles and such but I was having a discussion with another officer and was wondering, among all the cases of internet based sexual solicitations between adolescents and adults are there any cases someone here can point me to that shows where in a small percentage of the cases (and I know it will be a very small percentage) the adolescent was the aggressor?

 

 

Here is an article that might interest you about this subject: http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/CV135.pdf

 

I just quickly skimmed it, I don't know if there are any specific listing of how old the aggressors were. However, I'm pretty certain that adolescent aggressors can be more common than one expects.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Deja Vu
multiple post merged

[Pangloss]

Isn't waiting longer to have sex a relatively recent phenomenon in the history of humans? I mean, most animals, us included, tend to have sex the moment their hormones take over and they are in/through puberty.

 

It's only during the last few centuries that puritanical values and religiously dictated behavioral restrictions have been pushed on people causing them to wait longer until having sex. For millenia, however, that's not been the case. For most of the existence of humans, we had sex as soon as we were able.

 

Well in my opinion your initial question is good but the conclusion is messed. We take control over our instinct-driven, animal-derived behaviors for all sorts of reasons (like skepticism or scientific endeavors) -- why does this one get derided as "puritanical" and "religiously dictated"? Not that you're wrong, I think you're just missing a connecting step there.

 

Maybe a better way to make that point would be to say that WHEN it is religiously-dictated it's not a good thing, but when it's done for logical reasons, such as avoiding pregnancy or educational/economic hardships, or just plain personal choice-making, it's fine.

[Mag]

Isn't waiting longer to have sex a relatively recent phenomenon in the history of humans?

 

actually, I think quite the opposite.

Its fairly recently that we've been going away from the "save sex until marriage" (which I suppose is a fairly "modern" thing though if you choose to include all of human history...)

But then again, marriage is also taking place later in life nowadays, as opposed to the early 20th century.

 

 

and to the OP, I will post something here if I come across one, granted by the time I come across it I remember about this thread

[iNow]

When I say "human history," you all realize I'm talking millions of years, right? I mean, before culture, before farming, before religion...

 

We get horny at puberty.

That results in a very specific set of behaviors.

 

On the scale of human history, it's only in the last tiny subsection (a few thousand years is nothing) that people have used intention to wait and suppress the natural urge until marriage or until their 20s or whatever.

 

 

Hence my point... It's the waiting longer part that is strange, and that people having sex at "younger ages" now is not at all the outlier, but the default for us and other animals.

 

 

 

EDIT: If my estimate of human history going back millions of years seems to large to you, please recall that there is no clear dividing line between "before humans" and "after humans," and that I'm not necessarily limiting discussion to homo sapiens.

Edited July 21, 2008 by iNow

[Taktiq]

Here is an article that might interest you about this subject: http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/pdf/CV135.pdf

 

I just quickly skimmed it, I don't know if there are any specific listing of how old the aggressors were. However, I'm pretty certain that adolescent aggressors can be more common than one expects.

 

Hey thanks, that's a start. I'll read over it when I get back from work.

[Sisyphus]

actually, I think quite the opposite.

Its fairly recently that we've been going away from the "save sex until marriage" (which I suppose is a fairly "modern" thing though if you choose to include all of human history...)

But then again, marriage is also taking place later in life nowadays, as opposed to the early 20th century.

 

When I say "human history," you all realize I'm talking millions of years, right? I mean, before culture, before farming, before religion...

 

We get horny at puberty.

That results in a very specific set of behaviors.

 

On the scale of human history, it's only in the last tiny subsection (a few thousand years is nothing) that people have used intention to wait and suppress the natural urge until marriage or until their 20s or whatever.

 

 

Hence my point... It's the waiting longer part that is strange, and that people having sex at "younger ages" now is not at all the outlier, but the default for us and other animals.

 

Even on the scale of the history of civilization, younger sex is the norm. "Waiting until marriage" is also prevalent, but it's important to remember that thirteen was considered old enough for marriage in most cultures and for most of history, especially for females. For the record, I'm not advocating either "norm" - we're definitely better off waiting until emotional maturity catches up with physical maturity, I do think that "statutory rape" with large age differences is rightfully considered a crime, and I have no problem whatsoever with sex outside of marriage. I guess I'm just a product of my times that way...

[Deja Vu]

When I say "human history," you all realize I'm talking millions of years, right? I mean, before culture, before farming, before religion...

 

We get horny at puberty.

That results in a very specific set of behaviors.

 

On the scale of human history, it's only in the last tiny subsection (a few thousand years is nothing) that people have used intention to wait and suppress the natural urge until marriage or until their 20s or whatever.

 

 

Hence my point... It's the waiting longer part that is strange, and that people having sex at "younger ages" now is not at all the outlier, but the default for us and other animals.

 

We all hear you, it's just that it is irrelevant to a topic that is about sexual harassment, and nobody cares. Please don't derail the thread.

 

 

EDIT: If my estimate of human history going back millions of years seems to large to you, please recall that there is no clear dividing line between "before humans" and "after humans," and that I'm not necessarily limiting discussion to homo sapiens.

 

Ironic that you would say that given that millions of years is a rather short amount of time . Humans as we know them have only existed for 2 million years. Besides which we don't have enough data on the lifestyle of early humans to say with certainty what cultural rituals they participated in.

 

Hey thanks, that's a start. I'll read over it when I get back from work.

 

I haven't found anything yet on the number of adolescents who were offenders, unless it was between adolescents only. Even then, the vast majority of them were older than the person they were trying to solicit. I'll come back to this thread later to fulfill your other requests, I am short on time and am at work right now.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Deja Vu
multiple post merged

[iNow]

We all hear you, it's just that it is irrelevant to a topic that is about sexual harassment, and nobody cares. Please don't derail the thread.

 

Actually, the OP was asking if there were any cases where it was the younger participant that made the advance toward the adult on the internet, but whatever. I was just trying to correct a misrepresentation which was made later in the thread.

 

And I care, so GFY.

 

 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

[Deja Vu]

Yes, he was asking when the adolescent was the aggressor, not so much as whether or not they should have sex in general. If you want to start your own thread on whether or not adolescents should be made to wait, then do so. Otherwise the OP wasn't asking for opinions on that issue.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Deja Vu

[iNow]

But a follow-up post did present this misperception, and it was THAT which I was looking to correct. I've explained this already. Feel free to PM me if you're looking to pick a fight for no apparent reason.

[Sisyphus]

I'd say it's quite relevant to the discussion. The point is that human beings are biologically capable of being aggressive sexual beings at the ages we're talking about them being targeted. That being the case, it would be very surprising if some adolescents weren't the pursuers in these relationships. It's not an empirical source, but it's a rationale for educated speculation.

[Taktiq]

While I do understand what you all are getting at, the person I was having a discussion with challenged me to back up my belief that in some instances the adolescent was the aggressor and that adolescents may be maturing earlier in our society with actual data. The person I'm talking to won't accept me telling him, "well so and so on this forum told me or said...".

 

Though I do enjoy and am quite fascinated by the speculation and such, I don't want this thread to get so sidetracked it misses my original purpose and devolves into a heated discussion and gets locked much like the "pedophilia" thread. So please just limit your responses to any possible studies you can offer or point me in the right direction to where I can search on my own.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Taktiq

[Deja Vu]

I'd say it's quite relevant to the discussion. The point is that human beings are biologically capable of being aggressive sexual beings at the ages we're talking about them being targeted.

 

Not to be a nitpick, but so are a whole bunch of other organisms, ranging from lions to cockroaches. But it doesn't really help us understand how prevalent this is, or at what ages this can happen at, or even why this would happen.

 

That being the case, it would be very surprising if some adolescents weren't the pursuers in these relationships. It's not an empirical source, but it's a rationale for educated speculation.

 

I actually do agree with you. But those stats are VERY hard to find if they exist, I'm still looking for them. If you find data related to this subject, let us know.

 

But a follow-up post did present this misperception, and it was THAT which I was looking to correct. I've explained this already.

 

Where? Those posts were very clear on what the OP wanted.

 

Feel free to PM me if you're looking to pick a fight for no apparent reason.

 

I don't understand why you are angry with me, as you are the one who was derailing the thread. I pointed this out and you apparently didn't bother to reread the thread, or just ignored it altogether. And as I said before, if you want to talk about whether adolescents should have sex, then make another thread about it. If you also want to bash religion at the same time, then go to richarddawkins.net. I also post there too, and I might join you in that activity. If all you are going to do is preach, then there is no point in continuing this discussion with you.

 

 

But please stay on topic. Do you have any statistics that the OP might want to look at? I can't find any at this moment, and I beginning to think that they don't exist.

 

While I do understand what you all are getting at, the person I was having a discussion with challenged me to back up my belief that in some instances the adolescent was the aggressor and that adolescents may be maturing earlier in our society with actual data.

 

Actually, I do doubt that adolescents are maturing faster in our society. While their bodies certainly mature between the ages of 13 and 16 (as it has happened historically and for most of human existence), I'm not too certain that they are psychologically developed appropriately, especially given all the stress and the demands that pop-culture and other things in modern society places on them.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Deja Vu
multiple post merged

[Taktiq]

Actually, I do doubt that adolescents are maturing faster in our society. While their bodies certainly mature between the ages of 13 and 16 (as it has happened historically and for most of human existence), I'm not too certain that they are psychologically developed appropriately, especially given all the stress and the demands that pop-culture and other things in modern society places on them.

 

Good point and I did say if I was wrong...I'm wrong. I'm man enough to admit it. I was never sure if there was any solid data either way in regards to both of my queries, that's why I came to you guys.

[iNow]

Where? Those posts were very clear on what the OP wanted.

 

You asked where it was discussed that adolescent sexual behavior was occuring earlier, the point to which I was responding, and then proceeded with your unecessarily aggressive tone as you admonished me for not "bothering to read the thread" or just "ignoring it all together" and "derailing" it.

 

Let me now address your question of "where" it was mentioned that adolescents are maturing earlier and having sex sooner.

 

 

 

From post #3:

 

I have a feeling that due to adolescents maturing earlier...

 

<...>

 

Also, are there studies which show juveniles today are maturing physiologically and psychologically earlier?

 

 

 

From post #4:

 

And yeah, I think you can find articles on that fact that kids are, at least physiologically maturing faster than previous decades.

 

 

 

It was those two posts to which I responded in post #6, when you began berading me for being off-topic:

 

Isn't waiting longer to have sex a relatively recent phenomenon in the history of humans? I mean, most animals, us included, tend to have sex the moment their hormones take over and they are in/through puberty.

 

It's only during the last few centuries that puritanical values and religiously dictated behavioral restrictions have been pushed on people causing them to wait longer until having sex. For millenia, however, that's not been the case. For most of the existence of humans, we had sex as soon as we were able.

 

 

 

You even then went on to say the very same thing yourself now in post #19, the very point I was trying to make and which you kept admonishing me for:

 

Actually, I do doubt that adolescents are maturing faster in our society. While their bodies certainly mature between the ages of 13 and 16 (as it has happened historically and for most of human existence),

 

 

So get a grip, and stop being a jerk. Okay? No need to tell me to reread the thread when your own grasp of what's been said is so weak.

 

 

 

Now, part of the reason you are all struggling to find articles specific to this topic is that there really are no in depth studies showing national trends in sexual activity in middle school kids (roughly ages 10 to 13). Very few groups are willing to finance such studies due to their fear of the outcry from politicians and fundie religious nutjobs.

 

At best, you'll get high school aged kids, and even then you will be limited to self-report measures like surveys and questionnaires. You have to remember the difficulty in obtaining such a metric. There are no databases (to my knowledge) anywhere tracking each sexual initiation behavior performed on the internet and the demographics of the parties engaged.

 

It can only be captured by self-report, something that requires huge population sizes to reduce noise and false responses (something not likely to get due to the protections afforded the age group in question).

 

 

However, if you look at other studies discussing the nature of recent sexual permissiveness, and the types of behaviors being engaged in, as well as the mindset surrounding this age group (kids are just curious, and see "trying things out" and "experimenting" as perfectly normal and "just something to do"), then that serves as very strong corroborating evidence that them doing so on the internet is not beyond the realm of possibility.

 

It's not likely very common, but it's very much possible and almost certainly has occurred on more than one occasion.

 

 

 

Not specific to the OP, the following articles offer some useful insights, and support the points I've made above:

 

http://www.jstor.org/pss/354014

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2648232

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2648159

http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/cpb.2005.8.473

 

 

 

Also, reviews like this can prove insightful:

 

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713998119~db=all

 

 

 

This one implies that the mindset of the child can have enormous impact on their behavior on the internet:

 

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1550591

 

 

 

Hopefully the above satisfies you, Deja Vu. Maybe you can beat with a cane if it doesn't.