copper (I) oxide

[mr.generic.user]

is there a good way to make coper (i) oxide using electrolysis and / or household chemicals? i want to do some solar experiments with it, but not the 'baked' copper plate thing. i want to tinker with it. i get at best a small amount from saltwater electrolysis, can i do something to encourage its formation, or convert copper(2) oxide to copper (I) oxide somehow???

 

thanks.....

[hermanntrude]

deleted. Confused myself.

 

I have no idea how to make this stuff, sorry

[CaptainPanic]

All I found was wikipedia, but that doesn't seem to give an easy method to produce it... it might give you some ideas though.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper%28I%29_oxide

[John Cuthber]

"Easy" isn't well defined here but if you can get hold of copper sulphate, cream of tartar (or citric acid), bicarbonate of soda (caustic soda will make things easier), and vitamin C (or glucose) it's possible. Do those count as household chemicals?

Edited July 31, 2008 by John Cuthber

[mr.generic.user]

thanks to all for input! John Cuthber, is this a solution for electrolysis, or a process for reducing? if so what process would i use to do it?

 

speaking of reducing (this may be a bad idea, let me know) could it be done if i mixed copper (II) oxide with carbon powder (ground charcoal [raw NOT briquette]), denatured alcohol, more carbon powder on top and heated with a torch in a bottle or something?

 

my thinking (maybe very wrong) some of the carbon will form carbon dioxide and the alcohol evaporates driving out regular atmosphere, some of the rest of the carbon may pull some oxygen off of the copper (II) oxide causing some cu to bind with CuO to form Cu2O (i think that is copper I oxide). would i get reactions from the alcohol i don't want? would the temps needed be too hot? like animaniacs, is this GOOD IDEA or BAD IDEA?

Edited August 1, 2008 by mr.generic.user

[CaptainPanic]

If you plan on heating any metal oxides with carbon present, clear out the oxygen with extra CO2 or N2 please... heating flammable liquids (ethanol) with a torch is just a very bad idea... especially if you put them in a bottle first. You will not just get fire, you'll get an explosion and then a fire.

 

Also, you are planning to: make a gas in an air-tight place (you suggested a bottle). If it works, you will build up pressure (that means it can explode even without ethanol)... meaning you need to make sure (very sure) that this air-tight place is strong enough to contain that pressure, or that you have a release valve for the CO2 buildup.

 

Are you sure you need this Cu(I) oxide so badly? What do you need it for anyway?

 

Finally, I kinda doubt that you'll be able to reduce the copper to copper I. I think that if anything is going to happen, it will reduce all the way to metallic copper. But have a look at steel production to get an idea of the kinds of temperatures you'll be needing. Copper is not the same stuff as iron of course... but it might be interesting anyway.

[John Cuthber]

Capt. Panic is right about heating things in sealed containers.

However what I had in mind was something based on this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehling's_solution

Is your chemistry up to working out the rest of it, or do you want a hand?

[mr.generic.user]

your right, (alcohol flamable) slipped my mind. no i was going to use an open container, that is why i wanted it to drive out the regular atmosphere, but i don't want it to catch fire, and i was worried about that i might take away too much oxygen. because it would be difficult to use C02 pistol bottles or paintball tanks to drive out the regular air (and the fire hazard from alcohol), that idea will remain just that, thanks for the reminder (can't believe i overlooked it..... duh.....)

 

my chem is not. i remember things like don't touch phosphorus, potassium, sodium, or take them near water in pure form from HS (cool ball of fire, greek fire, willie pete grenade, etc).

 

i think i see where you are going w/wiki on fehling's solution. not sure if they are all able to be gotten w/o a license, i'll have to look. skimming it looks like what i want is precipitated when i add something that meets the test requirements to the solution though.

 

CaptainPanic, why i want copper(I) oxide, i want to do some experimenting in making some a solar panel i am designing in my head. the old "burn one copper plate" cell explains the use of the copper(i) oxide, but i don't want to make that one ( and it is hard to harvest that oxide correctly from the plate ), just use the Cu2O for its properties (semiconductor, light slows down to speed of sound) in the design in my head. trying to use carbon and some different substrates (i can't grow the specific silicon crystals needed / too expensive to buy). when used correctly carbon can also demonstrate semiconductor properties. I thought this could be the case (pyrolitic graphite is conductive accross a layer but not between, and it resists all magnetic fields). so i wanted to tinker, maybe if i get lucky, i can come up with an efficient alternative to Si cells. if i did i would give it to the world ( i think gnu has hardware gpl's that allow personal use and retain royalty rights for commercial use like they do for software. )

 

if i could make it at home and it does well, think what would happen if someone actually RESEARCHED and MANUFACTURED it.... and if it doesn't work, it will be worth the time for the fun and learning. besides, if we all left the science to those employed as scientists, Einstein would have remained a patent clerk............ ( no insult to scientists intended )

 

sorry, that was long. i hope it didn't sound rude. i am happy and thankful for any hints or help i can get. and if i can get it, and the solar cell stuff working, i will be more than happy to share it ( and how to make it ) with you guys ( and the whole world ). if the cells work, i just don't want to see them get real expensive, especially since it would be an answer we've been looking for.

 

--thanks.....

[John Cuthber]

not sure if they are all able to be gotten w/o a license, i'll have to look. skimming it looks like what i want is precipitated when i add something that meets the test requirements to the solution though.

 

 

The materials are available and you are right- Cu2O is precipitated by adding glucose and heating the mixture.

[mr.generic.user]

(do this outside, don't want to inhale anything.)

 

1) fill glass container 2/3 - 3/4 full white vinegar.

2) add copper

3) add table salt, after a few days, solution turns blue due to copper ions floating in solution.

4) using non-reacting carbon rods, electrolysis of blue solution. maroon - red build up on cathode ( i *THINK* this is copper(I) oxide [Cu2O].)

 

guess:

a) salt corrodes copper.

b) vinegar (acetic acid?) hates corroded copper, rips off molecule strips chlorine floats copper ion in solution (pretty blue)

c) in electrolysis, ions migrate to cathode, bonds with oxygen from water in during the trip, but some extra electrons donated by the introduced electric current take up the space some valence electrons in the molecule, keeping the copper from oxidising fully to CuO.

 

is this correct or are some other reactions causing impurities in the molecule?

[hermanntrude]

copper(I) oxide isn't maroon or red. I suspect the red build up is copper.

[UC]

copper(I) oxide isn't maroon or red. I suspect the red build up is copper.

 

Actually Cu2O (which is what is being discussed) is red (maroon, however is most likely copper). If the buildup is actually *on* the cathode, it is certainly copper metal.

 

Please see here for making Cu2O by electrolysis:

 

http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms/Chem_Cu.html

[hermanntrude]

Copper(I)oxide and Cu2O are the same thing, no?

 

Oh hang on... I'm thinking of CuCl, Copper(I)chloride. That's white. Yes you are right.

 

However, if it's on the cathode it ought to be copper, since that's the reduction product, unless you do some fancy stuff

[mr.generic.user]

it has very strong red tones, but the substance is still submerged. when i remove the cathode from solution, the substance clings to it. kinda looks felt like in texture as one would expect, but it is very much more red at that point. i thought that maybe the maroon look was the fact that it was still 'wet', the same way stones get deeper in tone when wet. i have not yet been able to dry it out completely don't want it exposed directly to air for fear that it would oxidize more...

 

to dry i was thinking of using everclear and a homemade vacuum pump or something, if you have any good ideas about how to dry it without letting it oxidize please tell me. i tend to make things more complicated at times.

 

is there a way to test if it is indeed copper or copper(i) oxide?

Edited March 16, 2009 by mr.generic.user
more descriptive

[UC]

it has very strong red tones, but the substance is still submerged. when i remove the cathode from solution, the substance clings to it. kinda looks felt like in texture as one would expect, but it is very much more red at that point. i thought that maybe the maroon look was the fact that it was still 'wet', the same way stones get deeper in tone when wet. i have not yet been able to dry it out completely don't want it exposed directly to air for fear that it would oxidize more...

 

to dry i was thinking of using everclear and a homemade vacuum pump or something, if you have any good ideas about how to dry it without letting it oxidize please tell me. i tend to make things more complicated at times.

 

is there a way to test if it is indeed copper or copper(i) oxide?

 

Throw it in concentrated HCl. If it dissolves, it's Cu2O. If it doesn't dissolve, it's Cu. If it looks like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Synthesizing_Copper_Sulfate.jpg it's definetly copper.