phosphorus

[nitric]

I ave a question on yt's phosphorus synthesis:is there a chance that using a argon atmosphere would increase yields:confused:

[ecoli]

what synthesis??

[nitric]

search: "Phosphorus extraction. (completed) :)" and look

[hermanntrude]

i have a bucket of red phosphorus at work. I'm scared of it.

[nitric]

it's better than having a bucket of white phosphorus:D. that stuff ignites on contact with air.

[hermanntrude]

it's better than having a bucket of white phosphorus:D. that stuff ignites on contact with air.

 

true, also I think that even owning white phosphorus is illegal without permits now

 

The red phosphorus says on the can that it is shock sensitive and explosive, which is why i'm a little nervous of it

[frosch45]

This is a very interesting read from Wikipedia

 

 

Around 1669 Hennig Brand heated residues from boiled-down urine on his furnace until the retort was red hot, where all of a sudden glowing fumes filled it and liquid dripped out, bursting into flames. He could catch the liquid in a jar and cover it, where it solidified and continued to give off a pale-green glow. What he collected was phosphorus, which he named from the Greek for "light-bearing" or "light-bearer."

 

Phosphorus must have been awe-inspiring to an alchemist. A product of man, and seeming to glow with a life force that didn't diminish over time (and didn't need re-exposure to light like previously discovered Bologna stone). Brand kept his discovery secret, again as alchemists of the time did, and worked with the phosphorus trying to use it to produce gold (unsuccessfully of course).

 

1)Boil urine to reduce it to a thick syrup.

2)Heat until a red oil distills up from it, and draw that off.

3)Allow the remainder to cool, where it consists of a black spongy upper part and a salty lower part.

4)Discard the salt, mix the red oil back into the black material.

5)Heat that mixture strongly for 16 hours.

6)First white fumes come off, then an oil, then phosphorus.

7)The phosphorus may be passed into cold water to solidify.

 

 

The chemical reaction Brand stumbled on was as follows. Urine contains phosphates PO43-, as sodium phosphate (ie. with Na+), and various carbon-based organics. Under strong heat the oxygens from the phosphate react with carbon to produce carbon monoxide CO, leaving elemental phosphorus P, which comes off as a gas. Phosphorus condenses to a liquid below about 280°C and then solidifies (to the white phosphorus allotrope) below about 44°C (depending on purity). This same essential reaction is still used today (but with mined phosphate ores, coke for carbon, and electric furnaces).

 

The phosphorus Brand's process yielded was far less than it could have been. The salt part he discarded contained most of the phosphate. He used about 5,500 litres of urine to produce just 120 grams of phosphorus. If he'd ground up the entire residue he could have got 10 times or 100 times more (1 litre of adult human urine contains about 1.4g phosphorus).

 

 

too bad thats not more efficient or we could all have a few grams sitting in our labs

 

of course...that completely ignores the whole saftey thing.... and white phosporus is certainly about 100 times more dangerous than red phosporus....

[jdurg]

true, also I think that even owning white phosphorus is illegal without permits now

 

The red phosphorus says on the can that it is shock sensitive and explosive, which is why i'm a little nervous of it

 

Not true. P is a regulated chemical due to its use in Methamphetamine production. Another instance of ****ing drug users ruining home chemistry. Still, there is no differentiation between the allotropes of phosphorus and the legality of owning it. Still, I'd rather have a pound of red P lying around than a pound of white P.

 

(BTW, the can stating that red P is shock sensitive and explosive is only true when in combination with certain chemicals. It's just that in the litigous society of today you have to mention even the remotest of possibilities to avoid being sued into nothingness).

[frosch45]

Its like how on swimming pool chemical tubs they have all of the cautionary statements that the oxidizers are flammable. They themselves are not flammable, but when mixed with something like sucrose.....