time,does it have a real physical essence?

[north]

there is this wide pervasive thinking that time, in and of its self , has some real physical essence to it

 

inotherwords time has influence on the movement of objects

 

is this true ?

[Gilded]

Seeing how well relativity has been doing for so many years I'd say that the physical concept of time cannot just be ignored.

[north]

Seeing how well relativity has been doing for so many years I'd say that the physical concept of time cannot just be ignored.

 

but nevertheless is in correct

[Klaynos]

To answer your question you're going to have to carefully define what you mean by "real physical essence" and "influence on the movements of objects"

 

What is true is that you can't write equations of motion for objects without some time component.

[north]

To answer your question you're going to have to carefully define what you mean by "real physical essence" and "influence on the movements of objects"

 

inotherwords can time ( in and of its self alone ) move stilled objects ?

 

What is true is that you can't write equations of motion for objects without some time component.

 

true

 

but what is more importantly true , is that the equations of the motion of objects don't come from time its self but the interaction of objects with other objects or the energy within a single object its self

 

therefore it is the energy within the objects themselves and as well their interaction(s) with other objects which create the situation of which time can be concieved

[Klaynos]

Time is as real as space... neither of them can "move stilled objects", but curvature of space-time due to gravity can.

[north]

Time is as real as space... neither of them can "move stilled objects", but curvature of space-time due to gravity can.

 

time is not as real as space at all

 

time is merely a mathamatical concept used to to understand movement

 

gravity doesn't curve space but curves the matter within that space

[ydoaPs]

time is not as real as space at all

 

time is merely a mathamatical concept used to to understand movement

What makes you say that? Just as distance is the separation between objects, duration is the separation between states of a system. Time and space are similar concepts in that they are both just separations. They are also both relative with respect to reference frames due to the energy differences between frames.

 

gravity doesn't curve space but curves the matter within that space

What makes you say that?

[Klaynos]

Gravity curves space time.

 

Relativity shows us quite clearly that space and time are 4 of the same...

 

If you're going to state that time and space are not both dimensions you're going to need some pretty sturdy proof... and I mean mathematical and experimental proof here....

[north]

north

time is not as real as space at all

 

time is merely a mathamatical concept used to to understand movement

 

 

 

 

What makes you say that? Just as distance is the separation between objects, duration is the separation between states of a system.

 

distance is well distance

 

duration on the other hand is based on the energy applied to either system or just by one system to move together or apart

 

and that energy is based on the energy of the system and/or particles involved , time has nothing to contribute and was never meant to

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time and space are similar concepts in that they are both just separations. They are also both relative with respect to reference frames due to the energy differences between frames.

 

relative is about perspective . human perspective

 

but to the object(s) there is no perspective , they , the objects , just do what they do

 

gravity doesn't curve space but curves the matter within that space

 

What makes you say that?

 

because space has no substance in and of its self

[iNow]

I feel more edjamacated already.

[Klaynos]

Time does not require energy, space (distance) does not require energy.

 

Relativity is NOT about human observers, Muons in the upper atmosphere have a different decay time than those that are stationary because they are moving at relativistic speeds.

 

Space does have a structure, ask any general relativity expert....

 

If you're going to argue with me you need mathematical evidence and observable evidence...

[Yuri Danoyan]

there is this wide pervasive thinking that time, in and of its self , has some real physical essence to it

 

inotherwords time has influence on the movement of objects

 

is this true ?

 

see please my thread http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34700

[north]

Time does not require energy, space (distance) does not require energy.

 

Relativity is NOT about human observers,

 

Muons in the upper atmosphere have a different decay time than those that are stationary because they are moving at relativistic speeds.

 

you failed to mention what the difference in the decay time is between the muons in the upper atmosphere and those muons that are stationary

 

fill me in

[Klaynos]

I'm not really here this weekend but this article should show you an experiment that will allow you to find the muon decay time in the upper atmosphere.

 

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0031-9120/33/5/012

[north]

I'm not really here this weekend but this article should show you an experiment that will allow you to find the muon decay time in the upper atmosphere.

 

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0031-9120/33/5/012

 

 

I don't have the money to by it

 

so be so kind as to give your argument

 

Time does not require energy, space (distance) does not require energy.

 

I disagree

 

the essence of time is all about movement or energy of objects and their interactions and the consequence(s) of their in the change of position because of an objects energy or movement

 

if ten objects were frozen still in that moment of position how does the addition of time change anything of their position ? time doesn't , at all

[Dark matter]

Time cannot move stilled objects itself, but with the help of space and maybe something like gravity, it is very easy to move objects.

[north]

Time cannot move stilled objects itself, but with the help of space and maybe something like gravity, it is very easy to move objects.

 

think about what you just posted

 

space can help ? how ? space has NO physical substance in and of its self

 

and gravity is based on the physical , physical objects

 

so to you , time is based on gravity and gravity is based on physical objects and therefore time is based on physical objects and the ability of these objects to move other physical objects by gravity

 

hence the essence of time , the movement of physical objects and the resultant measurement of this movement by using time

 

rationally thinking

[iNow]

You remind of Fred, or maybe Graviphoton. Even if you're not them, you're walking down the same path they chose to follow.

[north]

You remind of Fred, or maybe Graviphoton. Even if you're not them, you're walking down the same path they chose to follow.

 

I know neither of these people so they are irrelevant

 

so can you not see the reasoning of my last post ?

[Dark matter]

think about what you just posted

 

space can help ? how ? space has NO physical substance in and of its self

 

and gravity is based on the physical , physical objects

 

so to you , time is based on gravity and gravity is based on physical objects and therefore time is based on physical objects and the ability of these objects to move other physical objects by gravity

 

hence the essence of time , the movement of physical objects and the resultant measurement of this movement by using time

 

rationally thinking

 

 

All I was trying to say is that time cannot move an object on its own.

[iNow]

You remind of Fred, or maybe Graviphoton. Even if you're not them, you're walking down the same path they chose to follow.

 

I know neither of these people so they are irrelevant

 

Oh, that's right. The name I was trying to remember was Eric 5.

[ydoaPs]

I thought Eric5 tried to use math.....I get them all mixed up.

[iNow]

Same tone, but you're right... they all look the same to me.

[north]

Originally Posted by north

think about what you just posted

 

space can help ? how ? space has NO physical substance in and of its self

 

and gravity is based on the physical , physical objects

 

so to you , time is based on gravity and gravity is based on physical objects and therefore time is based on physical objects and the ability of these objects to move other physical objects by gravity

 

hence the essence of time , the movement of physical objects and the resultant measurement of this movement by using time

 

rationally thinking

 

 

All I was trying to say is that time cannot move an object on its own.

 

good

 

then we are in agreement

 

now the implications of this relisation....