Where is Human Memory Stored?

[pioneer]

Education uses this energy principle. For example, we teach a child that the furry thing that barks and wags his tail is a dog. When they get it right, there is reward such as "good boy" or rest . If they get it wrong, we keep the pressure on, so their brain is in an activated learning state. Some parents may crank up the activated state, with yelling. The idea is to get the lowest energy state, externally (punishment-reward) to help define the zero energy point of social convention. We could call it anything, but a culture will define the lowest energy state of this memory association based on common tradition and language. You don't need both reward and punishment, just punishment or reward will do, but the combo also works.

 

Say the brain is doing this memory energy lowering internally, while culture is also using peer pressure to define the lowest energy state externally, though education. These two zero states can match or they can be different. As an example of different, peer pressure says the world is flat as the externally defined lowest energy state. At that time, anything beside flat will mean punishment, therefore flat is as low as you can go based on external knowledge. But internally the data reached lowest energy as the world is round. What we have is an internal conflict. We have this internal peer pressure, so to speak, and an external peer pressure. I suppose which ever nags more wins, with external able to apply group pressure.

 

To reach the internally defined zero point, which is lower energy due to being more true, implies going into negative energy relative to the socially defined zero point. This would be exothermic and appear to go below conscious rest, into negative unconsciousness, i.e., anger and fear. We can't go there directly, because chemical reactions require an activation energy hill. Therefore, the socially defined zero state stability will require an activation energy, where it needs to climb an energy hill to free it from its defined zero energy energy structure. In modern culture, this process is done with initial skepticism due to the direct negative energy affect. The activation energy requirement then becomes experiment, math and logic. If it works out to lift the mind up and out of the old socially defined zero energy point, we can slide down the new energy hill toward the new newest lowest energy state.

 

ioneer - In sum, no. Your entire post is rubbish (using vague and undefined metaphor as if that somehow is supposed to add some sort of meaning).

 

My question was is memory a chemical structure that stores energy? I said yes. One way to look at it is more synapses mean more sodium ions flowing implicit of more current flowing.

Edited October 11, 2008 by pioneer

[Glider]

Pioneer: your habit of posting unsupported rubbish as though it were accepted fact is becoming annoying.

[immortal]

 

My question was is memory a chemical structure that stores energy? I said yes. One way to look at it is more synapses mean more sodium ions flowing implicit of more current flowing.

 

Yes memory is a chemical structure but it does'nt store energy, it utilises it. The membrane protiens degrade with in a few weeks, so if you want to have long term memory you need to program your control processing unit (i.e. the nucleus) to synthesise these membrane protiens and send it to the tip of the axon using the anterograde transport. For this programming of nucleus you need protein kinases which add or delete phosphate groups to proteins changing their shapes.

 

Most of the ATP molecules will be used by the Na+- K+ ATPase enzyme which pump the ions across membranes to restore the potential.

 

I did not understand anything else from your post apart from this. What do you mean by negative energy and negative unconsciousness?

[Tsadi]

quantum physics does have a few interesting implications to that of memory, and mind, which would take more time i have now to explain. Maybe later.

 

However, what i wanted to say is that neurobiologist Candace Pert believes the human mind is in every cell of the body.

[immortal]

However, what i wanted to say is that neurobiologist Candace Pert believes the human mind is in every cell of the body.

 

I will go on to say that the human mind is in everything that exists.

[DrP]

I saw a documentry once about the brain. Bascule was right - "The structures most involved with memory are the neocortex and the hippocampus."

 

The hippocampus is the twirly bit on either side of the brain. Would this mean Twylek's from star wars have really good memories??

[bascule]

A better question to ask is why there is a neccesity for a quantum information processing in the brain?

 

Yes, that really is the issue.

 

Earlier I said that there is a difference between sensation and perception.

 

Yes, this represents the difference between nociception and perception.

 

We don't directly interact with the physical world.

 

This was quite clearly outlined by Kant, who I would suggest reading before Penrose. Kant quite clearly articulates the difference between phenomena (events in the physical world) and noumena (our perceptions of them).

 

There is a delay between sensation and perception but the brain compensates for that giving an illusion as though we are directly interacting with the physical world. One of the explanation for this compensation was given by Roger penrose. He says time flows backwards and the brain somehow recieves the information from the near future and gives us a sense of perception without any delay.

 

Global workspace theory suggests we build a model of the outside world inside the thalamus, and is based on neuroscience, not Penrose's quantum consciousness mumbo jumbo. There are published scientific papers on global workspace theory. Can you find a published peer reviewed scientific paper that Penrose has written on the hypothesis you describe?

[Glider]

quantum physics does have a few interesting implications to that of memory, and mind, which would take more time i have now to explain. Maybe later.

 

However, what i wanted to say is that neurobiologist Candace Pert believes the human mind is in every cell of the body.

If this were true, then people undergoing amputation of limbs should suffer measurable cognitive/memory impairment.

[Mr Skeptic]

If this were true, then people undergoing amputation of limbs should suffer measurable cognitive/memory impairment.

 

That, or bleeding.

[Glider]

Uh..yeah. That too.

[immortal]

Can you find a published peer reviewed scientific paper that Penrose has written on the hypothesis you describe?

 

Here's the link:-http://www.springerlink.com/content/x3m1618084153548/?p=a280291fba5a45618deabaf29a6f7bd9π=22

I don't have access to the link. I hope you have it.

 

We just know that time may flow backwards but we have no idea what so ever of how and from where the brain receives the information?

Edited October 22, 2008 by immortal

[bascule]

Here's the link:-http://www.springerlink.com/content/x3m1618084153548/?p=a280291fba5a45618deabaf29a6f7bd9π=22

I don't have access to the link. I hope you have it.

 

No, I don't, and from the abstract this doesn't appear to be a paper on quantum consciousness.

 

We just know that time may flow backwards but we have no idea what so ever of how and from where the brain receives the information?

 

Except we do... the brain receives information through the peripheral nervous system. You can hypothesize some sort of crazy reverse-time-affects-brain thing if you'd like, but without evidence for it, why should we believe that any more than the tooth fairy?