Need Help! Problems Starting Science at University

[Duality]

Hi everyone, nice to find a forum like this. I hope it is alright to ask for help on these boards because I really need it!

 

I'm a university student in Australia completing an Arts degree, but I'm looking to move into either a pure science degree (after I graduate) or shift to a dual science/arts degree very soon.

 

Now, this is hard to explain without going on for 3 pages but I've done science at uni before and been 'floored' by it. I was forced into doing it, I hated the uni I was at/areas I was studying and I had no grounding in physics, math or chem from highschool so I failed a lot of it and left.

 

The thing is, now that I've been doing other things for a long time I've actually wanted to go back to science! Egh!

 

However obviously my math, physics and chem problems remain and they're serious because things like physics interest me the most!

 

What I really want to know is how worthwhile bridging courses are for entry into university level science. I have some on offer at my current university and they're starting within the next couple of weeks, for math, chem AND physics which is great for me.

 

However I'm worried that I'll do them and still get screwed by science once I actually get in. Does anybody have experience with a situation like this? I really, really want to do science and I'm willing to work hard at it, but I'd like to get an idea of how much bridging courses actually bridge the gap!

 

It's a fairly big decision for me. I'm already 21 and I feel like I'm getting too old to be starting a degree (queue laughter from older folks? ) and I can't afford to really make the wrong decision. However, I don't believe my current degree alone will lead to anything and my interest in it wanes.

 

Does anyone have an opinion about my situation?

[CaptainPanic]

hmm... I don't know the level of the bridging courses, but if they are given at the university where you also want to enter the science education, then I guess that they are indeed bridging.

 

So, in that case my advise would be: take those bridging courses, give it all your best, and if you manage to finish them, enter the university.

 

I hope that there is some way of having a backdoor exit without paying a full year of university in case you fail (which you, given the right motivation and effort, shouldn't)... but these are all questions you can ask at the university.

 

Universities are bureaucracies, so it's going to take a little time to get through to the right person, but just allow yourself to spend a little too much on phonebills and get the info straight form the university. Preferably from the study advisor of the physics department, or a professor who gives the bridging courses.

 

If they are not given at the same institute, try to connect them by (1) bringing books to the science university, and showing ("is this enough?") or (2) by trying to get the physics study advisor check whether they are good enough...

 

Hopefully some Australian has some experience with this... it'll be more helpful than I can ever be

[Klaynos]

In the UK there's things called foundation degrees which would suite you perfectly I think. There may well be something similar in Australia and your best bet is to contact an admissions tutor and ask.

[Duality]

Thankyou for the input and advice. I hope more will come soon (especially from Australians with similar experiences!).

 

I think I should be alright if I apply myself to whatever I'm doing, of course planning that is the easy part. Doing the hard work day to day is much more difficult.

 

To give a bit more information out, the courses are not at the same university I'd be studying at. Which is sad, but hey what are you going to do? I'm sure as hell not doing science at my current uni again! Worst. Lecturers. Ever. Amongst other resource problems.

 

Additionally I have heard of courses similar to those 'foundation' degrees or courses. The problem with those (for me) is time. From what I've seen they're very solid sources of information and practice, but take 6 to 12 months to complete.

 

I'm looking at doing this stuff over the (rapidly approaching!) summer period here so that I'll be ready for semester 1, 2009's late offers. The uni I'm going to won't actually let me in without these skills in the first place, so it's going to be a very tight squeeze to get in.

 

Hope that's not too much rambling! I'm excited about it all but fairly worried. I mean, I'm pretty bad at math and I want to do physics? Ergh. Well, perhaps that's an unfair assessment. I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to math, and out of practice because of that/a lack of use in daily life or course work. I don't think I'm actually bad at it, hell, I could do calculus at some point... A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

[CaptainPanic]

Regarding math: it's not my strong point either. I'm a chemical engineer now, and I do have a very good feeling for my job, but as soon as differential equations or worse appear, I open some computer program, dump my problem there, and pray it works. Good thing that creativity is at least as important as math

 

Regarding lectures at uni: I'm afraid that it's a fact of life that at university you will find lecturers who are totally uninspiring, boring, bad at explaining, and should never be allowed to teach... but because the good, socially capable and inspiring people left to industry/business they're the only ones left at the university, and they must teach. But it's not all bad... so keep your hopes up.

 

If you complain as a student about bad teachers, you should consider a (part time) job as teacher when you're done with your studies. (Hehe, and I know every single student on earth complains about teachers)

[Comandante]

Where in Australia are you? I've been to few universities in Melbourne, including RMIT, Deakin, Monash and Swinburne. I'm completing one science degree this year (and I'm 21 : ) and I'm starting my second science degree next year, with physics as major and I intend to proceed into honours after that and also PhD. For this first degree I'll be getting distinction average (around 78%) and I can tell you I didn't try anywhere near my best, so my point is that it won't be too hard at all to get a decent pass or credit, all you need to do is attempt problems from past/practice exams about two-three weeks before the exam (or earlier if you want better marks) and you should be fine. If you get stuck at any point most lecturers/tutors will be happy to assist you.

 

As far as physics is concerned, if you go to study physics you'll definitely be required to pick up some maths, hopefully that doesn't scare you because you will need some maths skills for university physics. For physics I would recommend Monash University as they have the best physics courses around here (though people from Uni. of Melbourne might disagree) and they also have our only synchrotron in their backyard so you'll be going there as well. Monash also has the largest school of chemistry in Australia and has strong biochemistry courses. Also, from what I gather most of the lecturers there are pretty cool and from what I've seen myself they have some very nice demonstrations for first year units.

 

RMIT is good for engineering and such while Deakin is good for biomedical sciences and molecular biology, and also to mention they have strong chemistry courses at Geelong campus (far west from city). With Swinburne I'm not well accustomed but I hear they've got some nice engineering courses. Well, in case you’re not even in Melbourne, the same applies to physics, if you want to study physics past first semester you’ll be required to take some maths as prerequisite for physics. With chemistry there are generally no maths prerequisites unless you take up chemical engineering units, so in pure Science degree you’ll be allowed 1-2 electives from any faculty per semester if I’m not mistaken, which could turn into a lot of fun as you could be picking up random units such as intro to astronomy, some law units, philosophy or whatever else you might find fun or easy, but then again you will need to do a set of units in relation to what major you pick. Therefore think about what your major might be, you can even have 2 majors or a major and a minor, or just a major and a bunch of random units. That’s what I like about science degrees, they’re like baskets from a supermarket- you just add things into it that you like, and depending on the university there could be heaps of different units to choose from. If you don’t know what some units are about and synopsis from uni websites doesn’t tell you much, then you can always go and attend a few lectures from the start of any unit or alternatively e-mail (or go in person) unit chairs and ask them for more information.

 

Whatever the case I personally believe that anyone who doesn’t have a Science degree is missing out and what’s more I think that any Uni course should be backed by at least 2 years of science units. I know that a lot of things I said aren’t related to your concerns, and I also don’t know what the bridging scheme you mentioned is, but nonetheless I still think that you should do a Science degree (3 years at least) if you have the resources, and then if you liked it go into honours.

 

Cheers

[Duality]

Thanks for the reply Sysco.

 

I'm in QLD, which I suppose limits my choices a bit. I'm fairly sure I'll end up studying at the University of Queensland because outside of Bond or something similar (that I can't afford) it seems to be the best around.

 

I appreciate the input though, the bridging course I'm taking is run by my current university and is recognised by UQ apparently.

 

As a bit of an update, I'm also considering environmental science or something similar. I have a very strong interest in environmental problems/solutions and so forth, although I'm reluctant to take a degree that specialises in environmental science. I kind of fear that it will be a bit of a 'weak' science degree.

 

What I mean is it may be more general knowledge, or common knowledge anyone could pick up on-the-job rather than the 'hard' science. Could somebody correct me on this or am I right? Because I'm guessing if I really wanted I could just do something like biology or chemistry, then apply that to environmental problems and still have other 'school-based' specialisations to fall back on.

 

Even so, as I said, I really have an interest in physics. But I do wonder if I'm being childish there, I mean I've never really done physics. I love the picture physics creates of the world and I love how fundamental it is, plus quantum mechanics is one of the most interesting areas I've ever read about. Whether I can take that into a career though is beyond me... Lack of experience, math/physics skill and lack of knowledge about careers for physicists may derail the idea.

[Comandante]

No worries.

 

In that case, if you really do like environmental science then you can go for that too. What's good about it in Australia in particular is that it's very valuable and that employers from all sorts of industries are employing environmental scientists at an increasing rate (from what I've heard) and you can imagine why. Environmental science as a degree involves a lot of units that aren't really cores for any other degrees, unless people pick them up as electives or take environmental major. Now, how exactly interchangeable are general science degrees with environmental I'm not sure, but I do think that if environmental scientist is required then those with environmental degree would be given the advantage. I'm also not sure how they've structured Env. Science degree at UQ but you can take a look at their website or brochure and compare, as I haven';t got much time now. Though, as to answer your question about 'hard' science bit I can tell you that environmental science is no joke. I can imagine there'll be plenty of chemistry, mostly analytical in later years, and also most of the first year chemistry units that any chemistry degrees are made of. Furthermore, I believe you may be able to pick 1 to 2 electives, which you could use to pick up some maths and physics and see if you like it, but that's something you'll have to work out from the brochure. I'm sure you'll be able to do it in Science degree though if you can manage to pick an environmentalist major and maybe chemistry/physics or other minor or another major; as I said before, Science degrees are flexible.

 

If you really really like physics after you take it up as elective then you could probably be able to transfer into general science degree at second year level (or even after first semester) and continue into physics major. There are plenty of careers for physicists in a lot of industries, examples would be research (very wide areas) or education (from primary school to university lecturing which requires PhD) but to get a much bigger list go to your nearest university and pick up a "science graduates careers" booklet or even attend one of those public lectures where they talk about careers for science grads. Don't forget that Department of Defence also has some great positions if you like a pretty vibrant environment.