Elementary Particles and Physical Law - Psychokinesis follow up...

[ParanoiA]

What kind of impact does a subatomic particle have on the laws of physics? Does the particle compel the properties of law, or does the law compel the properties of the particle? Or is that a chicken and the egg?

 

I’m bored, and playing with my psychokinesis thing again, and was wondering about the idea of an elementary particle brokering such a concept. Is it plausible that one subatomic particle (that is, if we could get god to inject it in all the atoms of the universe for us) could possess the properties to provide the mechanism for forces we might exploit in the form of psychokinesis?

 

Remember, this is for fun, so please don’t beat me up because I’m a dumbass about particle physics and don’t know how to ask a physics question without it contradicting itself or even making much sense.

[insane_alien]

particles follow the rules of the universe, not the other way around. scientific theories are what we have deduced the rules to be.

[ParanoiA]

particles follow the rules of the universe, not the other way around. scientific theories are what we have deduced the rules to be.

 

And when those rules are deduced, have you found that a particular physical phenomenon can be traced back to a simple particle? Like how Photons are responsible for electromagnetic phenomena (well, per Wikipedia anyway, so I don't know how accurate that is to phrase it that way).

 

I guess that's what I find confusing. It almost seems like an elementary particle like a photon causes physical law. And if you were to remove it, you would then alter the laws of physics.

[insane_alien]

the photons are just following the rules of the universe. they are responsible for electromagnetic phenomenon but they do not create the rules that govern them, they just follow them as a photon IS an electromagnetic phenomenon. the rules created the particle.

[ParanoiA]

Interesting...I would have thought the laws of physics were the result of the properties of the forces and particles.

 

So, if the universe was empty of all particles, or all but one, the laws would still exist?

[insane_alien]

yes. they would.

 

if you think of the universe as a more elaborate conways game of life then it is the rules that make the particles move and behave the way they do (take gliders for example, they could approximate a photon). the glider does not create the rules, the rules create the glider.

[swansont]

And on the other front, psychokinesis tends to violate energy and momentum conservation.

[ParanoiA]

And on the other front, psychokinesis tends to violate energy and momentum conservation.

 

I really need to read up on this conservation thing, I see this referenced alot when I go digging around physics stuff.

 

I was hoping I could develop a fictional reality that simply included an additional elementary subatomic particle to be, or help to be, responsible for psychokinesis, and any downstream effects that particle might introduce that may not be obviously apparent. But I just don't understand enough to write about something like that and be believable I guess.

 

Edit: Hmm, after reading about them conservation of energy makes sense, that one seemed pretty straight forward, but momentum conservation isn't entirely clear to me.

Edited August 30, 2008 by ParanoiA

[MrGamma]

I don't see why Psychokinesis would be impossible at all...

 

I have not tried to verify these sources... however navy sonar test might be able to kill whales...

 

Whales' Deaths Linked to Navy's Sonar Tests

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1231-02.htm

 

Psychokinesis might not be impossible at all... but I would suspect you would have to find an organ in the brain which is capable of projecting a detectable force.

 

Otherwise... you can simply think that you're creating an action at a distance... and assume it's true with no evidence to support it...

 

However... Physics claims no accuracies with social interaction and influence regarding action at a distance. Clearly the effect is seen... perhaps even measurable... People are certainly trying to master the effect... Neuro Linguistic Programming may be an interesting area of study in this instance... along with the arts...

Edited August 31, 2008 by MrGamma

[ParanoiA]

Thanks I'll check that out. Sounds interesting anyway.

[swansont]

I don't see why Psychokinesis would be impossible at all...

 

I have not tried to verify these sources... however navy sonar test might be able to kill whales...

 

Whales' Deaths Linked to Navy's Sonar Tests

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1231-02.htm

 

What does sonar have to do with psychokinesis?

 

However... Physics claims no accuracies with social interaction and influence regarding action at a distance. Clearly the effect is seen... perhaps even measurable... People are certainly trying to master the effect... Neuro Linguistic Programming may be an interesting area of study in this instance... along with the arts...

 

What definition of "Clearly" are you using?

[MrGamma]

What does sonar have to do with psychokinesis?

 

Psycho (mental)

Kinesis (kinetic)

 

So... essentially... sonar may be capable of killing whales. There is a myth that whales can use sonar to stun their prey by amplifying their echo location sense. By definition... I think that falls into the realm of kinetic force. But I know of no living organism which can inflict damage through sound waves.

 

This isn't kinetic... but it's close...

 

Squid stun prey by flashing

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/1044/squid-stun-prey-flashing

 

What definition of "Clearly" are you using?

 

Not by any measurable amount or accuracy... but a Rodney King beating televised could be an action at a distance... Twin Towers collapsing certainly has an effect at a distance... it started a whole war right?

 

So... if your brain doesn't have the capability of physically altering material... I guess the next best thing is to use your "influence"... right? The NLP people for the most part can seem really touchy feely ( alot of it is junk )... but there are real sciences involved and I guess it's not a physics dimension in the traditional sense... but it is a medium through which results can be achieved at a distance... even if it's just mentally... swish patterns are a scary concept... not sure how much truth there is in it...

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nlp+swiwsh+pattern&search_type=

 

If you need any validation on the science which goes into it... this is a good video to watch...

 

Edited September 2, 2008 by MrGamma

[insane_alien]

Psycho (mental)

Kinesis (kinetic)

 

So... essentially... sonar may be capable of killing whales. There is a myth that whales can use sonar to stun their prey by amplifying their echo location sense. By definition... I think that falls into the realm of kinetic force. But I know of no living organism which can inflict damage through sound waves.

 

This isn't kinetic... but it's close...

 

Squid stun prey by flashing

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/1044/squid-stun-prey-flashing

 

if my mates sister screams in your ear you'll think its going to kill you but this is far far different from psychokinesis. psychokinesis is where you move objects with your mind, not kill things with sound.

 

 

Not by any measurable amount or accuracy... but a Rodney King beating televised could be an action at a distance... Twin Towers collapsing certainly has an effect at a distance... it started a whole war right?

 

yes, but it is not moving things with its mind. there are plenty of things to perform actions at a distance, psychokinesis is a very small subset of that where you need nothing more than your mind. (like if i were to make your mouse go and get flushed down your toilet merely by thinking about it. (of course, i could pay someone near you to break into your house and do it but that would not be psychokinesis, that would be bribery)

[MrGamma]

psychokinesis is a very small subset of that

 

Whoops... I must have got it mixed up with telekinetic...