Biden on Abortion

[Pangloss]

I saw Joe Biden on Meet the Press this morning, and I was pondering his position on abortion, which I think is interesting. In a nutshell, he believes that abortion is wrong, but he supports the right to have that choice and he votes in favor of abortion rights. This is an interesting position, and I think a great example of the value of middle ground / common ground reasoning.

 

I can understand how some, especially religious folks, see this as hypocrisy, and/or just plain wrong. For one thing, from a unilateral perspective it seems like something that just cannot be anything other than wrong. Life is life, right? And even from a non-unilateral position, when looked at superficially, it certainly looks like political posturing, or outright hypocrisy.

 

But life really isn't that simple. It's complicated. Things happen. Sometimes awful things happen, like rape and other violent crimes. Sometimes you have to look at situations that don't have ANY reasonably good outcomes. That's just how things are sometimes. Nobody said it would be easy.

 

And look at what this kind of complex, textured response gets you: Biden gets to take a stand that almost nobody else can take on the subject, which is that abortion shouldn't happen as a form of casual birth control. Who else can take that position? Someone who's unilaterally opposed to abortion cannot make that distinction, because they're already biased against its use. And people who are unilaterally in favor of abortion are often criticized as being too permissive, of treating life too cheaply -- Biden clearly can't be accused of that. Just the opposite, in fact -- Biden could even be said to take it MORE seriously than anyone taking a unilateral view.

 

In short, on this issue at least, the middle ground is the HIGH ground. It's BETTER than being unilateral. It's more realistic. It's more encompassing of possibilities. It's more fair. It's more reasoned, and reasonable. Just exactly what this country is supposed to be all about, right?

 

What do you all think?

[Phi for All]

I feel the same as Biden on abortion. It wouldn't be *my* choice but it should be a choice. Set a limit on how late it can happen to avoid the legal labyrinth of "life begins at conception", and then leave it alone. It is the most logical, fair and reasoned approach to satisfy a large, diverse society.

 

Palin has a stance that is at odds with her experience and her actions. She defends her daughter's right to have her child, and to let that be her choice, but wants that choice taken away from all others, or any who would use that choice in a way Palin disagrees with. At that point, it's not really a choice at all, is it?

[john5746]

In short, on this issue at least, the middle ground is the HIGH ground. It's BETTER than being unilateral. It's more realistic. It's more encompassing of possibilities. It's more fair. It's more reasoned, and reasonable. Just exactly what this country is supposed to be all about, right?

 

I find most issues to be this way. We like simple rules and they are necessary for basic instruction and enforcement, but the truth is usually more complex. Absolute statements like all killing is equally wrong or that all sin is equal really avoids the possibility of discussion that can lead to justice, IMO.

[iNow]

I like how Biden was well read enough to have brought up St Thomas Aquinas and how even he wrestled with this "when does the soul enter the body" question during his interview with Brokaw this morning on MTP. Bright man, that Joe is.

 

 

 

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I find most issues to be this way. We like simple rules and they are necessary for basic instruction and enforcement, but the truth is usually more complex. Absolute statements like all killing is equally wrong or that all sin is equal really avoids the possibility of discussion that can lead to justice, IMO.

 

Reminds me of the Saddleback Forum:

 

 

WARREN

: How about the issue of evil. I asked this of your rival, in the previous debate. Does evil exist and, if so, should ignore it, negotiate it with it, contain it or defeat it?

 

<...

 

McCAIN

: <

pounds fist on table

> Defeat it!

 

<...>

 

OBAMA

: Evil does exist. I mean, I think we see evil all the time. We see evil in Darfur. We see evil, sadly, on the streets of our cities. We see evil in parents who viciously abuse their children. I think it has to be confronted. It has to be confronted squarely, and one of the things that I strongly believe is that, now, we are not going to, as individuals, be able to erase evil from the world. That is God’s task, but we can be soldiers in that process, and we can confront it when we see it.

 

Now, the one thing that I think is very important is for to us have some humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil, because a lot of evil’s been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil.

 

 

 

 

 

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The transcript from this mornings MTP on this abortion issue:

 

MR. BROKAW:

Two weeks ago I interviewed Senator Nancy Pelosi--she's the speaker of the House, obviously--when she was in Denver. When Barack Obama appeared before Rick Warren, he was asked a simple question: When does life begin? And he said at that time that it was above his pay grade. That was the essence of his question. When I asked the speaker what advice she would give him about when life began, she said the church has struggled with this issue for a long time, especially in the last 50 years or so. Her archbishop and others across the country had a very strong refutation to her views on all this; I guess the strongest probably came from Edward Cardinal Egan, who's the Archbishop of New York. He said, "Anyone who dares to defend that they may be legitimately killed because another human being `chooses' to do so or for any other equally ridiculous reason should not be providing leadership in a civilized democracy worthy of the name." Those are very strong words. If Senator Obama comes to you and says, "When does life begin? Help me out here, Joe," as a Roman Catholic, what would you say to him?

SEN. BIDEN:

I'd say, "Look, I know when it begins for me." It's a personal and private issue. For me, as a Roman Catholic, I'm prepared to accept the teachings of my church. But let me tell you. There are an awful lot of people of great confessional faiths--Protestants, Jews, Muslims and others--who have a different view. They believe in God as strongly as I do. They're intensely as religious as I am religious. They believe in their faith and they believe in human life, and they have differing views as to when life--I'm prepared as a matter of faith to accept that life begins at the moment of conception. But that is my judgment. For me to impose that judgment on everyone else who is equally and maybe even more devout than I am seems to me is inappropriate in a pluralistic society. And I know you get the push back, "Well, what about fascism?" Everybody, you know, you going to say fascism's all right? Fascism isn't a matter of faith. No decent religious person thinks fascism is a good idea.

MR. BROKAW

: But if you, you believe that life begins at conception, and you've also voted for abortion rights...

SEN. BIDEN

: No, what a voted against curtailing the right, criminalizing abortion. I voted against telling everyone else in the country that they have to accept my religiously based view that it's a moment of conception. There is a debate in our church, as Cardinal Egan would acknowledge, that's existed. Back in "Summa Theologia," when Thomas Aquinas wrote "Summa Theologia," he said there was no--it didn't occur until quickening, 40 days after conception. How am I going out and tell you, if you or anyone else that you must insist upon my view that is based on a matter of faith? And that's the reason I haven't. But then again, I also don't support a lot of other things. I don't support public, public funding. I don't, because that flips the burden. That's then telling me I have to accept a different view. This is a matter between a person's God, however they believe in God, their doctor and themselves in what is always a--and what we're going to be spending our time doing is making sure that we reduce considerably the amount of abortions that take place by providing the care, the assistance and the encouragement for people to be able to carry to term and to raise their children.

 

 

VIDEO: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26591154#26591154

Edited September 7, 2008 by iNow
multiple post merged