Equation

[frosch45]

Well, since there really hasn't been too many interesting new threads in this section, and since this is driving me insane that I can't figure this out, I'll just ask everyone here

 

 

[ce]CaCl2(aq) + H2O + KCl --> KClO3 +??[/ce]

 

The chlorate precipitates at cold temps, I know that, but I can't stoichiometrically balance it! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

Also, while I have this thread open, I was reading online somewhere (and it may have been a totally unreliable sorce) that when you have a salt dissolved in water, you can add ethyl alcohol conc. to it and it will help the salt precipitate?

 

And no, I do not plan on making a bomb or anything like that. This is purely educational. Besides, potassium chlorate is quite elementary compared to many other oxidizers, i.e. perchlorates and complex nitrates, peroxides of certain chems, etc.... I'm not stupid enough to make any of this stuff.

 

I JUST CAN'T FIGURE THIS STUPID THING OUT!!!!

 

Any help appreciated

 

 

 

.

Edited September 7, 2008 by frosch45

[nitric]

frosch,

as far as I know that equation is imposible.The starting components contain no oxygen.When combind calcium and potassium chloride do not react to any extent.

 

nirtic

[frosch45]

Here let me first give references

 

http://www.vk2zay.net/article.php/71

http://www.wfvisser.dds.nl/EN/chlorate_EN.html#therm_method <---THIS ONE IS SECTION 3.2

 

and also that reaction is carried out in water, thus the source of oxygen

 

but that still doesn't help

 

I've resolved to try this and post my results

 

but i would still like to have more feed back

[big314mp]

Your problem lies in the fact that NaClO (sodium hypochlorite, the active component of bleach) will break down into NaClO3 and NaCl. So you reaction is actually:

 

NaClO3 + KCl -> NaCl + KClO3

 

Well for the first part at least. The second part using Ca(ClO)2 works the same way.

[frosch45]

I want to clarify quickly in the first reference that I am not using sodium at all in this instance and you need to look at the bottom half of 3.2 in

 

 

http://www.wfvisser.dds.nl/EN/chlora...l#therm_method

 

Look at the part after using "Calcium Hypochlorite"

 

actually, I will just quote it from this first reference

 

In a separate container, dissolve 68 grams of potassium chloride in the smallest volume of water possible (approximately 195 ml). This can be done by dissolving the potassium chloride in about 200 ml of water, and allowing it to cool. If crystals form, add some more water, boil again to dissolve the potassium chloride, and allow to cool again. If crystals form, repeat. If not, the solution is ready to use.

 

7. Mix this solution with the boiled calcium hypochlorite solution (this means the calcium chloride). A white precipitate of potassium chlorate should form.

 

8. Bring the solution to a boil and add water untill all potassium chlorate has dissolved.

 

9. Allow the solution to cool slowly. Crystals of potassium chlorate will form. Cool to 0 deg C.

 

10. Filter to obtain the raw potassium chlorate. Rinse the crystals in the filter with ice-

cold water. The product can be further purified as described below.

[CaptainPanic]

I'm not familiar with the reaction, but calcium hypochlorite [ce]Ca(ClO)2[/ce] is not the same as calcium chloride [ce]CaCl2[/ce].

[DrP]

My chem is rusty, but if you look at the RHS of the equation you need to balance it, so what elements are missing? Ca, H and exess Cl. I do not how they go together on the RHS, but maybe CaH2 and Cl2? - Then you can ballance:

 

CaCl2 + H2O + KCl > KClO3 + CaH2 + Cl2

 

balancing:

3CaCl2 + H2O + KCl > KClO3 + 3CaH2 + 3Cl2

 

I don't know if these are the right products or not, so I would feel happier if someone like Hermantrude or YT would varify what the products should actually be. I mean, you night get CaCl2 and H2 - I don't know.

Edited September 8, 2008 by DrP

[frosch45]

I'm not familiar with the reaction, but calcium hypochlorite [ce]Ca(ClO)2[/ce] is not the same as calcium chloride [ce]CaCl2[/ce].

 

I am aware that Calcium Hypochlorite is not the same as Calcium Chloride. As per the instructions listed above, the caclium hypochlorite is thermally decomposed into CaCl and some other products.

 

Actually, when I was doing this step, I did not recognize how vigerous the reaction would be. I was doing this outside, otherwise I would probably be dead right now, because a column of yellow gas ferociously escaped from the beaker, and yes, it was so dense that I could see it (faintly, but still, to see even faint chlorine, especially outside, is scary.

 

Anyway, I just bought some from my supplier, so now I have 500g pure CaCl.

 

I don't know if I will have time to try this tonight, but if I get the chance....

 

My chem is rusty, but if you look at the RHS of the equation you need to balance it, so what elements are missing? Ca, H and exess Cl. I do not how they go together on the RHS, but maybe CaH2 and Cl2? - Then you can ballance:

 

CaCl2 + H2O + KCl > KClO3 + CaH2 + Cl2

 

balancing:

3CaCl2 + H2O + KCl > KClO3 + 3CaH2 + 3Cl2

 

I don't know if these are the right products or not, so I would feel happier if someone like Hermantrude or YT would varify what the products should actually be. I mean, you night get CaCl2 and H2 - I don't know.

 

That is also what I was thinking could happen, but i'm 99.999999% sure that this thing doesn't form aqueous calcium hydride. Wierd.

 

anyway, i will try this later

[frosch45]

Alright, so here's where I am at now.

 

I have supersaturated a solution of 50 g of Potassium Chloride in 275 mL of water

I have saturated a solution of about 50 g of Calcium Chloride in about 250 mL of water

 

I combined them and the solution is in the freezer as I speak.

 

Interesting special notes:

 

I guess that CaCl2 is fairly diliquescent because when I put it out on the DRY tray to way it on my scale I left a few fragmets behind and I found water on the tray in small droplets.

 

When I poured the CaCl2 into the water, the water warmed up, I would say at least 5-6 degrese.

 

This still seems more and more like it won't work though. I can't imagine with just potassium, calcium, and chloride ions in water it will make a chlorate.

 

Its in the freezer now, so I have only two more questions

 

 

 

1) Calcium Hypochlorite decomposes thermally in water when heated. I have tried many a time to balance this equation, but pathetically, I couldn't do it. I know it forms either Chlorine or some sort of Chlorine dioxide.

 

2) Also, Does anyone have a way to test for chlorate ions besides combining them with organic matter in the presence of heat or H2SO4?

[big314mp]

"This still seems more and more like it won't work though. I can't imagine with just potassium, calcium, and chloride ions in water it will make a chlorate."

 

Probably because it won't. Read my post again. You aren't using CaCl2. You are decomposing Ca(ClO)2 to form Ca(ClO3)2 and CaCl2. The Ca(ClO3)2 bit is the relevant part.

[frosch45]

that makes sense... i was wondering where the oxygen was coming from. I didn't really understand that....

 

oh well, what can I do with some calcium chloride/potassium chloride mix? anyone? could I use it as a no-sodium salt mixture for fries or somethin? i think it would work because both calcium and potassium are essential nutrients, and the chlorine just goes along with those like in sodium chloride....

Edited September 12, 2008 by frosch45