Destiny of humanity and complex life on the Earth

[Mr Skeptic]

Mr Skeptic

Noted. However, we got a long way to go. The current space station cannot keep people healthy for too long. A long term habitat will need gravity, shielding from radiation, a nuclear fusion power plant, and enough green plants growing to remove CO2, provide oxygen, and grow food.

 

Heh. Is it cheating if the space habitat is a sphere weighing in at 6 X [math]10^{24}[/math] kg? Obviously, the space station is nowhere close to self-sufficient.

[Moontanman]

Heh. Is it cheating if the space habitat is a sphere weighing in at 6 X [math]10^{24}[/math] kg? Obviously, the space station is nowhere close to self-sufficient.

 

If you had read this thread from the beginning you would have seen that the whole idea is that "this space station" is going to die, one way or another our time on the Earth is limited. We cannot move or other wise change it significantly. We have to move on, preferably before the Earth dies and we can pick and choose where and when we go.

[Mr Skeptic]

Actually, we can move the earth. By making small changes in the motion of asteroids, you can deflect them close enough to earth to transfer energy to or from them via the slingshot effect. It would allow us to, with current technology, move the earth farther from the sun over thousands of years, allowing us to keep earth safe as the sun goes red giant, and again move it closer as the sun slowly dies. Obviously, you wouldn't want to miss.

 

Regardless of how long the earth will survive, though, it would be incredibly stupid to remain confined to it. The scale over which it would take for the earth or sun to die would be so large, that humanity will no longer be here. We might wipe ourselves out, evolve into a separate species, or genetically engineer ourselves into something limited only by our imagination. In any case, whichever group or groups goes out to colonize the galaxy will have far more resources than those who stay on earth fighting over scraps of resources.

[SkepticLance]

With it weighing in at 6E21 tonnes, the energy to move the Earth significantly would be unbelievable. Anyone care to do the sums?

[TrickyPeach]

Id like to see the Hilton on the moon first and then I'll decide whether we can colonise any other planet(oid).

 

What would be the easiest/most suitable planet to colonise we know of? In regards to proximity to earth, gravity closest to ours, resources on the planet...

[Knupfer]

My premise is this, there are basically three ultimate destinies for humanity and complex life on the Earth.

 

1. We stay here and ride out the Earth and become extinct along with everything else when a natural disaster of some sort wipes out life on the Earth.

 

2. Humans colonize the solar system by Terra forming other planets and eventually go to the stars and do the same thing there. We would travel via very fast (near C)space craft to other stars with suitable planets, we might take some complex life with us.

 

3. We colonize the solar system through orbiting colonies and bypass planets altogether. Using these huge colony ships similar to O'Neil cylinders we can spread out slowly and occupy the Galaxy in a few hundred thousands years. again we would take much of Earth's complex life with us. Stars with large populations of asteroid like bodies would be preferred. Tau Ceti is an example of this type of star.

 

If complex life is as rare as some think then we could be thought of as spreading complex life around the galaxy.

 

Again, science dabbles in the imagination, not reality. So people can imagine all sorts of scenarios about our future except the obvious; we will all be destroyed. That's because of the propensity for human beings to destroy ourselves and of course the fact that the earth is limited in size and cannot tolerate unlimited amount of humans on earth and of course our man-made contraptions that litter the earth. So it's only a matter of time before all mankind will be a thing of the past.

[npts2020]

Knupfer: Even scientists mostly agree that the human race will become "extinct" someday, so I fail to see your point. Does that mean we should all bury our heads in the sand in the meantime and wait for "the end"? I am not a scientist by profession but still like to try to understand the world around me, science gives me that explanation better than any other. If you have better explanations for things we all want to hear and see how they better explain natural processes.

Edited October 3, 2008 by npts2020
deleted wrong topic

[Moontanman]

Again, science dabbles in the imagination, not reality. So people can imagine all sorts of scenarios about our future except the obvious; we will all be destroyed. That's because of the propensity for human beings to destroy ourselves and of course the fact that the earth is limited in size and cannot tolerate unlimited amount of humans on earth and of course our man-made contraptions that litter the earth. So it's only a matter of time before all mankind will be a thing of the past.

 

Knupfer, are trying to troll or just being obtuse. Science is all about reality, some times imagination is what changes our perception of reality and the limits of that reality. Don't denigrate what you are incapable of understanding.

[SkepticLance]

Re : Extinction of Man.

 

If we look at life on Earth 500 million years ago, we can say that each and every species is now extinct. However, there are more species on Earth today than existed then, and they are all descendents of the originals of 500 megayears.

 

Humanity will disappear, of course. However, there is no reason to believe that we will leave no descendents. If, as many people believe, our species learns to achieve star travel, and colonises the 100 billion star systems of the Milky Way, then we will become almost immune to extinction. No event could possible wipe out all human populations.

 

Given time, each population will give rise to differing descendent groups. Ultimately, these will no longer be human, and our species could be said to be extinct. Our descendents, though, will thrive throughout the galaxy.

[Knupfer]

If we look at life on Earth 500 million years ago, we can say that each and every species is now extinct. However, there are more species on Earth today than existed then, and they are all descendents of the originals of 500 megayears.

That's pretty convenient. In order to claim that fictitious animals once lived, all anyone has to say is that they became extinct. By that reasoning, one can say that aliens once lived on the planet and have now become extinct. You guys are so funny. But you're really good at making up fairy tales. So again, all you prove is that one of the biggest creiateria for "scientific" theories is that NO ONE IN THE PAST OR PRESENT HAS WITNESSED THEIR ASSERTIONS. That fits the definition of a fairy tale perfectly.

[Phi for All]

By that reasoning, one can say that aliens once lived on the planet and have now become extinct.

Your strawmen have become persistent, after you were verbally warned in another thread. Infraction issued.

[npts2020]

That's pretty convenient. In order to claim that fictitious animals once lived, all anyone has to say is that they became extinct. By that reasoning, one can say that aliens once lived on the planet and have now become extinct. You guys are so funny. But you're really good at making up fairy tales. So again, all you prove is that one of the biggest creiateria for "scientific" theories is that NO ONE IN THE PAST OR PRESENT HAS WITNESSED THEIR ASSERTIONS. That fits the definition of a fairy tale perfectly.

 

One could say aliens existed but no rational person would give it credence without some further evidence. In the case of evolution, you dont even have to believe fossils are real (although it is more logical to see how they could have been formed from extinct life forms than any alternatively proposed process I have ever seen) to see it in action. What do you suppose breeding (plant or animal) is all about? There are still bodies of many extinct species, dodo birds, carrier pigeons, and wooly mammoths just to name a couple, in existence. Where did those bodies come from? Plus there is speciation occuring right now, how many breeds of dogs, cats, or corn are there now compared with 200 or even 100 years ago? Simply put, evolution is the best explanation for the way things change from one generation to the next. I would love someone to come up with a better idea for it but I'm not holding my breath.

[SkepticLance]

The fossil record gives amazing evidence of evolutionary change. Between dinosaurs and birds, for example, scientists have found no less than nine intermediate forms, found from various rock strata, which have been dated to times that fit nicely the evolutionary picture.

 

Archaeopteryx was definitely a dinosaur - but with feathers and wings. Microraptor was another, but with more bird features. Confuciusornis was definitely a bird, but with teeth and dinosaur like features. And so on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_evolution

 

A similar series of fossils have been found between fish and amphibians, showing a clear picture of evolution. It takes very little research to come up with enough fossil evidence to put the question beyond doubt.

[Moontanman]

That's pretty convenient. In order to claim that fictitious animals once lived, all anyone has to say is that they became extinct. By that reasoning, one can say that aliens once lived on the planet and have now become extinct. You guys are so funny. But you're really good at making up fairy tales. So again, all you prove is that one of the biggest creiateria for "scientific" theories is that NO ONE IN THE PAST OR PRESENT HAS WITNESSED THEIR ASSERTIONS. That fits the definition of a fairy tale perfectly.

 

No Knupfer, there is no evidence of aliens on the Earth all life on the Earth is far to similar to have originated on another planet. Fossils of long dead animals is evidence of their existence, religion is a fairy tale with no evidence what so ever of the BS claimed by any religion. No one alive has ever seen any of the stuff in the biggest book of fairy tales called the bible. Just because someone wrote about things that happened in the past doesn't make them true. There is evidence of past life, none for the fairy tales in the bible.