There isn't one person on SFN that doesn't want to be able to do this. Look

[frosch45]

Shooting Sparks from the fingertips, wouldn't that be cool.

 

http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/pyromagic/sparks.html

 

The only problem is that the directions are a little bit unclear, but we can solve that problem.

 

This design is good, but lets improve it.

 

Does anyone have any other ideas for such a device? I was thinking something as simple as shooting out powdered chlorates and sugar or similar from a tube under the arm (in the sleeve) and then having some sulfuric acid on the fingertips (maybe coated with teflon?? lol, this is sounding stupider and stupider) um, I don't know, but it sounded really good when I was thinking about it

 

 

Regardless

 

Who has some other suggestions? The problem is getting the powder to ignite without burning off the hand.

[big314mp]

Flyback transformer in a backpack...you'll be shooting sparks from more than just your fingertips

 

The idea in the link seems relatively straightforward, and I don't see much room for improvement unless you look outside burning metals.

 

Maybe a sparkler in a copper tube with something to blow air through the tube? It's basically the same thing...

[CaptainPanic]

What kind of substances had you taken when it was still sounding good? :D

 

I advise you make a small van der Graaff generator. It is safer (much smaller chance of hurting yourself) and it is also much more fun, because it recharges.

 

I love this website: http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/electro/electro6.html

Because it shows how to make a van der Graaff generator from really simple things. I've made one, and (depending on the weather) the sparks are up to 2 cm long.

[frosch45]

Because it shows how to make a van der Graaff generator from really simple things. I've made one, and (depending on the weather) the sparks are up to 2 cm long.

 

Yeah, but shooting sparks, maybe like a foot or something.

 

I guess that the origional design isn't that bad, but the main problem is how to light the metal dust without having to light something on your finger first if there was some way that you could-at the same time as forcing the metal powder out- have something on the ring that could be electrically lit or even chemically lit.

 

Does anyone have some ideas of materials that will ignite that are non liquid? I guess that even a little bit of highly oxidative gas in a little ring next to a highly reductive metal could produce a flame? Then again, that would be pretty corrosive to the fingers...

 

Maybe just a ring of cesium next to a tube ring of water that could be punctured then

 

Ooh, how about platinum next to a tube 'ring' of hydrogen and oxygen gas mix that would be punctured by the platinum?

 

 

Seriously though, does anyone have any ideas of two materials that will produce a small flame instentaniously when in contact? Glycerol and permanganate is too difficult to time, sulfuric acid is too corrosive, then again the chemicals here aren't going to be NaCl.

[Flashman]

I'm thinking of some kind of catalytic metal powder that also oxidises and ethanol. You dip your fingertips in ethanol, and when they're allllmost dry, shoot the metal powder past them. The ethanol vapor created by your body heat reacts on the surface of the particles, causing them to get hot, and because they are tiny particles they then oxidise in air.... Not anything that will give you metal fume fever though!!!

 

However, you'd have a 9/10 chance of setting fire to your fingers but due to the cooling effect of ethanol evaporating off skin as it burns you should be able to extinguish them before you do yourself damage... maybe, or you could die a firey death and have three headed children.

[frosch45]

I have actually been working on this, and I'm really close. I decided to use a very small butane cartrage underneath my left arm, and it has a button so that when I press down sharply on my left arm, it releases butane until I let up again. Then I have a 1/8 inch tube running from that canister to in between my middle and ring finger on my right hand going underneath my clothes and there is a little nozzle there.

 

Also underneath my left arm I have a pizo-electric sparker with wires going to just beyond the nozzle on my right hand. A jab at that will cause a small spark on the wires on my right hand.

 

So effectively, I would be able to get a flame, if it weren't for the fact that the butane won't come out evenly. There is no leak in the hose, and there is certainly something coming out of it because I can feel the air coming out of it when I press down on the flow button, but whatever does come out of the tube won't light on fire, even with a match. This means that the sparker isn't the problem, but possibly the butane is just mixing with regular air too quickly and is not concentrated enough. Im still working this out.

 

I have a way to shoot out some sugar past this flame, but it takes far too long to type that, and what I have explained already is pretty confusing.

 

I do like your idea. Maybe a fire retardant applied to the fingers? Unfortunately though those are pretty toxic usually, probably can't use the brominated kind :|

[Flashman]

I did some quick research on my idea above, the only metals that isn't toxic, or too expensive, oxidises at a reasonable temperature and has some catalytic oxidation activity with ethanol, seems to be Bismuth. However it's pyrophoric as a fine powder. So you'd have to find a powder size that was too large to be dangerously pyrophoric, but small enough to burn when heated on contact with ethanol vapor due to oxidising it.

 

Cerium might also work, but is regarded as potentially toxic, it could be got as lighter flints and crushed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrocerium

 

Not entirely sure how good an oxidation catalyst those are for ethanol, compared to say platinum, when you can get a fine platinum wire to glow when exposed to ethanol vapor.

 

I guess the easy way to test the ferrocerium is to get a small glass of warmed vodka or other spirit, or even pure ethanol if you've got that around, and spark a lighter over it, to see if you get a more impressive display over the ethanol than just sparking it normally, or see if light grinding of the flint with the wheel then shaking it over the warmed ethanol will do anything. Be prepared of course for the likelihood of setting the alcohol on fire!

 

As for the other, no I don't know how to get Bismuth powder out of PeptoBismol.

 

Edit: Ah, I see lead free fishing sinkers may be made of bismuth

[frosch45]

Yes, as an alternative to more toxic lead fishing weights, now Bismuth is available. You can also get it online i'm sure, and if not already in a powder, perhaps a ball mill would work? Bismuth is very heavy though....

 

Here's powder online, except this supplyer never gives their prices outright. Its frustrating.

 

http://www.americanelements.com/bimp.html

 

actually, theres quite a few sources online I now see.

 

I still want to try to increase the rate of flow of butane from my canister to my nozzle, I'll see if that works first

[big314mp]

What sort of canister are you using? If you could find one, would a small acetylene or MAPP gas cylinder work?

[I.Q.129]

Just cheat and use special effects.

[Flashman]

Hmmm interesting, the way those guys spell out the properties of bismuth, I wonder if you can get it combusting by electromagnetic means. Like if you shoot it through a high intensity field, do eddy currents in it cause enough resistive heating to kick it off???

 

Then is it possible to arrange that your field is provided by a high inductance coil, and your oxidizing bismuth, shot at a high enough speed, provides an ionisation pathway for a followup electrical spark from your coil as it discharges...

 

Then you might get fizzy sparkly sparks, followed by a 2 foot long bolt of lightning, that would be somewhat unpossible without insane voltages if you had to give the coil enough joules to ionise 2ft of air by itself.

 

(Okay yes I'm also having insane ideas about metal powder coated BBs in a Daisy air rifle and projected energy weaponry now)

[big314mp]

Now we're back to the flyback transformer in a back pack

 

Perhaps a tube, packed with a metal powder, and attached to a high pressure gas cylinder. Opening the cylinder blows the dust out with combustible gasses, over a piezo sparker, lighting both of them on fire.

 

It's only a one shot device, but it would be pretty cool.

 

And I just had this though...what about various pyrotechnic flash powders?

 

Try not to lose too many fingers doing this...

[frosch45]

I know that this sounds like a pyromania-lead project, but I really am trying to be somewhat safe and professional about this. My goal is not to look like a crazy fire person, but I just wanted a cool party trick

 

I liked the idea of the compressed gas tube containing the powder idea, but then I would be shooting out a plume of fire instead of a few 'sparks'...

 

I was using a cylinder from a lighter...Yes, I did take it apart, but mostly for the pizo-electric sparker, and then I thought about the canister

 

I am thinking that I will have to get a different kind of cylinder, but i'm not sure what kind. It only has to be able to run for about 2 seconds, but the problem is that it must deliver the gas quickly over the length of the tube fast enough to produce a steady flame and not go out. I really think that there was just too many components of air in the tube that the gas mixed with.

[big314mp]

I'm thinking the butane isn't vaporizing fast enough, so you can:

 

1) Heat the butane cartridge. This is stupid since the plastic will probably melt, and then you've got other problems to deal with.

 

2) Switch to something that vaporizes better, or is just a compressed gas.

[frosch45]

That's the direction I'm leaning. Any suggestions as to the type of gas?

 

unfortunately, this ups the danger level significantly. I need to find a very very very small canister that is well sealed.

[big314mp]

I was thinking propane, as it still has to vaporize and is therefore somewhat limited in how fast the gas comes out. Hopefully that can boost safety. I'm not sure if small propane cylinders exist, but there is probably something out there for a hand held torch, or flame powered soldering iron out there that might work.

 

How big of a cylinder can you get away with?

[Flashman]

Well for a one shot deally, pure O2 and a metal powder that's a little larger than normally pyrophoric might work. Possibly fine iron filings. O2 can be got at welding places, or hardware stores that sell welding kit. Should be easy enough to electrolyse some into a test tube, to drop sprinkles of powder in to test.

 

Anyone ever hit fine steel wool with pure O2?

[big314mp]

I know the Home Depot sells a relatively small O2 canister for a fairly low price. I think the problem then becomes how to light the metal powder. I don't think a piezo sparker will work.

 

Maybe you could use a small N2O cylinder (think whip-its) + butane that is forced through a tube by compressed CO2 and mixed with the N2O as it comes out. Then you can outright weld with it

 

Flashman brings up a good point though. Metal plus oxidizer blown out with compressed gas may be the easiest if you can get it to light. I'm thinking pyrotechnic mixes again.

[frosch45]

Really, it cant be more than about 4-5 cm max. It needs to fit under my arm, and I can't have it look unnatural.

 

I like the idea of O2, and there's no single element besides flourine (which is obviously out of the question) that is more electronegative. What about having a metal that in itself is easily oxidized like calcium or magnesium powder?

 

Part of the problem is that I don't necessarily have the ability to compress gas beyond the limits of a balloon, which isn't a bad option, I could have some press valve on a tube, but again, theres only so much gas I can fit in so small of a place.

 

What is "whip-its?" N2O production is fairly straitforward, but the problem is the compression, and since I do not have a medical liscence, it would be pretty difficlut for me to buy one. No one has any ideas about how to really compress gas into a cylindar, do they?

 

Pyrotechnic mixes are still a good option, but the oxidizer/compressed gas is the real issue right now. If only I could compress my own gas?

 

What about Butanone?

[big314mp]

A "whippit" is a small (think CO2 cartridge size) cylinder of N2O used for whipping cream in commercial kitchens.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whipped-cream_charger

 

By Butanone, do you mean ethyl methyl ketone? Because if so, that would vaporize much slower than the butane.

 

Unless you were intending to spray it through a nozzle over a flame of some sort (sort of like a miniature flame thrower). Safety would be absolute murder to achieve, seeing as it would be about as safe as a...well...miniature flamethrower.

[Flashman]

Back to the flyback transformer in a backpack...

 

If you have a powder, loosely packed in a tube and apply a high voltage charge to it, what should happen is the grains all fly out of the tube, mutually repelling each other. They also tend to spark between each other somewhat. (At least this is what happens when you open a handfull of small cut paper confetti while insulated and having your other hand on a Van der Graaf generator) In low light conditions, this might produce a somewhat effective spark show.

 

I'm wondering if this effect could be used with an electroluminescent powder to better effect under normal illumination.

 

I'm also wondering if discharges between particles would be enough to kick off a narrowly pyrophoric (self igniting) substance, that is normally fairly safe.

 

Trouble with all the powder in a tube pyrophoric or near pyrophoric when induced with something (O2, electrostatic discharge) is that you might fire them before they're really clear of the tube, getting enough energy to fire the rest of the tubefull before it's expelled and having like a magnesium flare burning off your fingertips.

[big314mp]

Back to the flyback transformer in a backpack...

 

If you have a powder, loosely packed in a tube and apply a high voltage charge to it, what should happen is the grains all fly out of the tube, mutually repelling each other. They also tend to spark between each other somewhat. (At least this is what happens when you open a handfull of small cut paper confetti while insulated and having your other hand on a Van der Graaf generator) In low light conditions, this might produce a somewhat effective spark show.

 

I'm wondering if this effect could be used with an electroluminescent powder to better effect under normal illumination.

 

I'm also wondering if discharges between particles would be enough to kick off a narrowly pyrophoric (self igniting) substance, that is normally fairly safe.

 

Trouble with all the powder in a tube pyrophoric or near pyrophoric when induced with something (O2, electrostatic discharge) is that you might fire them before they're really clear of the tube, getting enough energy to fire the rest of the tubefull before it's expelled and having like a magnesium flare burning off your fingertips.

 

I'm not sure how well this will work with conductive materials, such as metal powders.

 

I'm thinking that if you used some sort of very fine dust it might work, but I have a feeling that if you pack it loose enough to be blown out with a flyback, then it'll just fall out of the tube on its own.

[frosch45]

Whippit is interesting, but I bet (it even mentioned this on the wikipedia page) i would look like im a druggee.

 

I'm thinking that if you used some sort of very fine dust it might work, but I have a feeling that if you pack it loose enough to be blown out with a flyback, then it'll just fall out of the tube on its own.

 

This is not a problem at all, I know exactly a way to only come out when I want it. The problem is that I wanted to have this all under my shirt....I am very skinny, so shirts naturally fit loosely on me, and if I was wearing a suit sport jacket, I could really hide somethin under there.

 

Im really not feeling the electricity route. Just not something I feel comfortable with unless it was really safe. I know that that seems odd seeing that I'm having a flame basically in my hand...but even still, it makes me nervous

 

Maybe there is another effect that I can produce that looks cool, maybe not sparks, maybe a flash of light? Tribioluminescence?