bascule Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 This is the first debate I've seen with a real "WTF?" moment. Before this there was "that one" and Palin's blatant dodging of the question, but this debate had something truly awe inspiring: How much would Obama's healthcare program cost small businesses. Zero, explains Obama. "ZERO???" asks McCain. The look on his face is one of befuddlement, bemused in his realization that Obama has a pretty cool idea. Or at least, that's how I read him. He then proceeds to blink spasmodically, in a manner that reminded me of Bush in his first debate with Kerry: Of course, look at how much of an effect that had on the election... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 "If we all agree that the winner of this debate is the next president, then the next president is Joe the Plumber." - George Will I thought Obama missed an opportunity there with the "Joe" issue. He should have pointed out that even if Joe somehow did end up paying more taxes, the important thing is that his customers would all be paying lower taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realitycheck Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 From 1932 through 1986 and many years before that, tax rates for the biggest earners were well over 50%, at one point as high as 92% in 1952, compared to 35% now. With the economy in such distress and the democrats surely taking over, Joe the Plumber will surely win despite whoever wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bascule Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 I thought Obama missed an opportunity there with the "Joe" issue. I almost thought Obama missed an opportunity with the Palin issue, but when it comes down to it Obama didn't need to be aggressive in this debate. He just needed to play it cool, which he did. Imagine how much Obama could've said if he wasn't trying to be polite... 538 presently estimates Obama's chances of winning at 95.1%. McCain was the one who needed to be aggressive this debate. I can't blame him for trying, but I don't think he succeeded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Yeah such as with the Planetarium thing coming up again -- Obama obviously knows what kind of "overhead projector" that really is, but he held his tongue. I sure didn't hold mine, but the only person who could hear me was my wife. (lol) Full debate transcript here, btw, if anyone wants: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/10/debate-transcri.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I almost thought Obama missed an opportunity with the Palin issue, but when it comes down to it Obama didn't need to be aggressive in this debate. He just needed to play it cool, which he did. Imagine how much Obama could've said if he wasn't trying to be polite...There were a couple of moments when it may have hurt him to lash back, like when McCain asked him why he didn't run for president four years ago. But I was a bit disappointed that Obama's reticence when poked came off as tacit acceptance, at least to me. I think Joe Plumber would have liked to see him scrap it up a bit too, but as bascule points out, Obama didn't need to be aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bascule Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 And unsurprisingly, the polls say Obama won 538 also said Obama didn't need to respond aggressively and left McCain with just enough rope to hang himself: Obama, it should be noted, was not particularly effective during this exchange (especially considering that he should have prepped for this kind of sequence days ahead of time), eliciting a lukewarm response from the dial groups. But it turned out that he didn't have to be, as McCain was left with just enough rope to hang himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realitycheck Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 MEET JOE THE PLUMBER!!! And I stand corrected. He is sticking up for the big earners, he has got his sights set high. He really does not want to change a thing, despite the history of taxation for big earners. http://www.yahoo.com/s/971720 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 That was awesome. Thanks agentchange! - Yes, I am registered to vote - No, I don't think people who make more should be taxed at a higher rate - Sure, it's cool that this happened - No, I will not be supporting either candidate at any rally, even though I've been asked - No, I will not tell you who I am voting for There is hope for this planet yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 What do you think are the odds Joe the Plumber runs for Congress in 2010? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 It seemed to me that McCain felt he had to pull something "big" off and this was his chance, (not sure what he could have done) but he didn't know how to do it. It wasn't until the end of the debate that it really became obvious to me how much stress he was under, when they all got up and he seemed entirely flustered with nervous energy - anyone catch his "Jazz hands" he kept throwing out there? He was like a coiled spring that just couldn't hold it anymore. The most amusing thing was getting coffee today, since I live in a small Wyoming town of 10k, you almost never hear about politics unless its really just someone parroting a diatribe at a bar, and a couple of women were talking about the debate. All I really heard was they seemed concerned about Barack, especially about gun rights, but mentioning McCain one said rather loudly in exasperation "Every time he snickered, it sounded like I was watching Beavis and Butthead, but no one was laughing." I have to say Bob Schieffer really impressed me as the moderator, he asked some good questions and did a pretty good job of keeping them on track. Even if he didn't get fully straight answers (ie, "how much of the oil we import do you plan to reduce in your first term") there were a lot of pleasantly straight questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john5746 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 And I stand corrected. He is sticking up for the big earners, he has got his sights set high. He really does not want to change a thing, despite the history of taxation for big earners. http://www.yahoo.com/s/971720 One of the arguments I have heard in regards to progressive taxation is that if the wealthy wants to pay more, they should volunteer to do just that. I say we let Obama implement his plan and if Joe wants to still contribute more so that a millionaire can keep more of his money - he should do just that. Under Obama, Joe keeps more of his money so he can acquire the business more quickly. Then, he will be in better shape to contribute more back to society. Makes sense to me. By the way, I will not benefit from Obama's plan or if I do it will be almost nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 What do you think are the odds Joe the Plumber runs for Congress in 2010? More likely that he gets busted for a major sex scandal ("I swear, she knew EXACTLY what I was talking about when I told her I was there to lay some pipe..."). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realitycheck Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 No wonder Joe had that embarrassed, under-the-microscope look on his face ... http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/10/joe_the_plumber_owes_ohio_taxe.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 None of our business. I've started a separate thread on Joe, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 So, I was watching C-Span last night (don't worry, my girlfriend already lambasted me for being a dork. any reinforcement from you guys will fall on desensitized ears/eyes...), and I saw this thing called the Alfred E. Smith Memorial Dinner. There, McCain and Obama were lobbing insults jokes at one another, and it was really very funny. Considering the political climate we're in, and the problems we all face, it really was nice to see, and I haven't laughed that hard in a while. Check it out for yourself. Go to the page below and at the top right of the screen is a link to launch the video in flash. The intro is so-so, but really the speeches by McCain and Obama are what you're tuning in for. Enjoy: http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=281814-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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