Acorn

[Pangloss]

(Mod note: Apparently you can't have an all-caps subject line. Go figure. This thread is about the political group, not the nuts from oak trees. Lol.)

 

We haven't talked much about ACORN here, and I suspect it's because we will mostly be in agreement with the basic issues. And I tend to avoid small-time political wranglings as beneath us, but with the Supreme Court issuing a ruling on the subject on Friday I think it merits a thread.

 

For background, here's a link to the Wikipedia article on ACORN:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN

 

In a nutshell (all puns intended), they're a special interest group advocating various social issues for the "working poor", etc. Generally aligned with Democrats and the left, they tend to register more Democrats than Republicans. This is considered acceptable in our society and there are lots of groups that do the same thing for the other side.

 

ACORN has come under scrutiny recently because of registration efforts that apparently signed up dead people, celebrities from the wrong geographic areas, and so forth. Most if not all of the illegal registrations were apparently the work of overambitious personnel -- there's been no direct evidence of institutional policy within ACORN management to do this, so far as I have read or heard. Republicans charge that that is the case, however.

 

But the Supreme Court apparently doesn't see evidence of institutional fraud either, ruling on Friday that election officials in Ohio did NOT have to review hundreds of thousands of new voter registrations in that state. The court's ruling was unanimous.

 

Wall Street Journal article on the Friday SCOTUS ruling:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122428556700546435.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

In my opinion the whole thing is a little silly, because it's not as if Mickey Mouse or Margaret Thatcher would actually show up to vote on election day, and that fact also suggests that it was the errant action of a few rather than an institutional problem. Not that that ever stopped ANY political party from turning a molehill into a mountain. This is exactly the sort of thing Democrats did in 2000, and it annoyed Republicans then, but for some reason this time not so much. Gee, I wonder why.

 

(Though I have to say it speaks well of that ostensibly "conservative" Supreme Court.)

[bascule]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Acorn_pushes_back_hugs_McCain.html

 

 

The old McCain sure looks white. Albino white. But I like him better.

[Pangloss]

Yeah it's unfortunate that sort of reply doesn't really work with the crowd that favors ACORN theories. Those people already consider McCain a sellout to the left. I've thrown it at a few moderates, though -- McCain also gave a speech at that event, if memory serves.

 

Nice pic of Kendrick Meek, there -- right around the time he gave a commencement address for us, if I'm not mistaken. He represents the district on the south side of the one I'm in. I believe that's Republican Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart sitting on his left, who represents my district.

 

(Diaz-Balart's employees stopped replying to my emails after I accused him of caving on the assault weapons ban issue after he personally promised me he would introduce a new bill after the election, which of course he did not. I'd show up at a town hall meeting and ask him about it, but I don't want to become Pangloss the Plumber!)

[bascule]

CNN fact-checked McCain's latest claims against Acorn, specifically that they were helping to commit voter fraud. CNN's conclusion was the claims were false:

 

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/10/17/lklv.griffin.acorn.sloppy.cnn?iref=videosearch

[iNow]

So, it turns out that the ACORN people collecting voter registrations, and helping communities ensure that people are registered to vote are required by law to turn in all forms they receive, even if they are suspicious. The law dictates that they turn them in no matter what.

 

The McCain campaign has accused them of voter fraud.

 

However, looking more closely at the law, it's not voter fraud unless those false registrations actually show up and try to vote.

 

 

Golly. We were lied to and misdirected by the Republican campaign machine. I'm shocked, I tell you... Shocked and appalled.

 

 

Oh yeah... The speech at an event to which Pangloss referred above happened on February 23, 2006, where McCain gave a speech in support of ACORN to members of ACORN.

[Pangloss]

Well, the problem is that's just a small subset of the overall issue. People have been convicted and sent to jail over this, so overall this is clearly not a matter of being "lied to and misdirected". There's an open question about whether this was an institutional policy at ACORN, and that question needs to be answered. I don't agree that that is a foregone conclusion, but I understand why some people feel that way and I think the investigation should continue.

 

I've also re-considered my position a bit on the registration of goofy names as "silly". A lot of the names that were registered weren't silly at all and would not have been recognized as phony by poll officials at a glance.

 

I still agree with you that overall there doesn't appear to be an issue here, but I'm thinking it probably does need to be taken seriously and looked at, given the plethora of cases and the fact that people have actually gone to jail.

[john5746]

However, looking more closely at the law, it's not voter fraud unless those false registrations actually show up and try to vote.

 

To vote early, all I had to do was give my name, date of birth and address. I provided no ID or even a registration card. If you register a dead person with address and date of birth, it is very easy for anyone with that info to vote under that name.

[npts2020]

Pangloss: The director of ACORN was on the Diane Rehm show on NPR yesterday and said that all of the members of their organization ever convicted (I think she said 6) of voter fraud were done so with the help of ACORN. The interview was quite interesting and she really took the man claiming voter fraud to task over lack of evidence for his claims. I don't doubt that everything possible is being done to try to "rig" the election but if it was ACORN doing it I would think the case would be much more straight forward and easier to prove, considering the number of people and methods involved.

 

john5746: It has been done before and will probably happen again. Get caught though and you will go to jail. BTW ID and voter registration cards are easy enough to fake if required.