Which orifice is more prone to STDs??

[atomXY]

(The title will make sense later, I told one of the members that I'd name it this..)

 

 

Lets talk about the birds and the bees. I was speaking to some people in the chat room about the difference between vaginal and anal sex.

 

I believe that through a closer look at human anatomy one can conclude that our bodies seem to be geared and structured for the union of male and female genitalia via the vagina rather than the anus.

Although many would say that there is no inherent meaning in the universe I believe that male and female bodies may actually be meant to be together as opposed to same sex couplings. I have gay friends and have experimented on both sides of the tracks. So I don't want anyone thinking this is a bash fest, because it is not.

 

I understand that the nature nurture argument is controversial and by no means am I trying to diminish anyones experience. I only wonder if our anatomy points to the way things "should" be...Sorry, I know that that is a nasty word for some because it implies inherent meaning and an order which is not always visible in the world in which we live. Yet I can't help but feel that way as I look at our anatomy. As I speak of this I am not necessarilly speaking of a God designed world. I am merely making an observation based on what can be seen in our anatomy.

 

Here are some reasons I believe that there is a compatibility between the vagina and the penis that cannot be found between the penis and the anus.

 

 

 

1. The vagina is multilayered as opposed to the thin skinned walls of the

rectum, which make the vagina suitable for penetration and less

susceptible to the tearing, which allows a much easier entry of STDs.

 

 

a. http://health.discovery.com/centers/sex/sexpedia/analsex.html

**last paragraph of article**

 

 

b. Type in rectal microbicides research current status and challenges

into google..When you see the link open it up..(It's a powerpoint look

at slide 7)

 

c. http://www.sexualhealth.com/question/read/sexuality-education/anal-sex/130/

 

 

 

2. The vagina provides a lubrication upon arousal which aids in penetration,

the anus does not provide this. (I am very aware that the lubrication is

not always present for different reasons ranging from stress to certain

medications, however, it is a part of the vaginal stages of arousal. The

minimal, almost non existent lubrication in the anus does not form upon

arousal. As a matter of fact the rectal walls have an absorbing nature

which is much stronger than that of the vagina. The vagina is more prone

to draining.)

 

 

a. http://irma-rectalmicrobicides.blogspot.com/2008/09/you-wanna-put-it-where.html

**They use the word designed..I know it's a faux pas when speaking

from evolutionary scientific terms..Bypass the word and pay attention to

the reality of the anatomical structures being described.**

 

 

3. The vagina has a way of opening itself upon arousal in order to receive,

the same cannot really be said of the anus.

 

 

a. http://www.zgxl.net/eng/atsk/bettersex/femaleorgasm.htm

**Parts of this process are detailed in the following link under the

heading; arousal may be accompanied by...**

 

 

 

These examples are somewhat simplistic...I know that sexuality is very complex, but I believe that these examples do have some merit.

I understand that sex is more than procreation and am not even arguing from a procreation standpoint. I'm just saying that we can force fit a puzzle piece but that doesn't mean it's a good place for it.

 

 

Many things can be pleasurable, but, that doesn't exactly mean that it is the best for our bodies...Even with the use of condoms the fact that the anus' rectal lining is so thin, can lead to damage when penetrating. Also their is a much higher rate of breakage and slippage of condoms during anal sex than during vaginal..The usage of a condom doesn't suddenly cause these anatomical truths to go away. Maybe our anatomy does indeed point to an order that is healthy and structured for us to follow.

 

Alright lets get to talkin' people.......What do you think??

[Sayonara]

Alright lets get to talkin' people.......What do you think??

I think...

 

I only wonder if our anatomy points to the way things "should" be...Sorry, I know that that is a nasty word for some because it implies inherent meaning and an order which is not always visible in the world in which we live. Yet I can't help but feel that way as I look at our anatomy.

...that you should either explain what your agenda is or ask us the question that you really want answered.

[Callie]

Hi atomXY

 

I would say that obviously the bottom is not designed for penetration and there are risks associated with that kind of activity. However I would imagine that most people would concede to that point.

 

I am slightly confused as to why this is important though. Humans do all manner of things that they weren't designed for and that can cause them ill health but they still do it, often in the persuit of pleasure.

 

Sexual intercourse is a dirty risky business no matter what way you do it, some practices are more risky than others. Anal sex isn't just for same sex couples either.

 

I haven't read your links but will try to have a read today.

[Sisyphus]

Well, obviously, the penis and vagina evolved together as a means for the male to deposit sperm in the female. There's no "maybe" about it. The fact that they're good for other things is just a delightful bonus. The STDs, for their part, also evolve to take advantage of these things as a means to spread from host to host. They are certainly not limited to vaginal intercourse...

Edited November 1, 2008 by Sisyphus

[iNow]

I think it's not your place to decide what is right or wrong, and that you should stop concerning yourself with the behaviors of others which has zero impact on you and your life. You are clearly biased from the start asserting that one is right and another wrong, so any further dialog is pointless.

 

You can not make broad sweeping generalizations like you are, only draw interpretetations from averaged data, which you aren't.

 

 

Nearly all evidence indicates that homosexuality is primarily genetic. As for what and where we stick our fun parts, and how that may or may not relate to STDs is nonsquitur. I can put man plumbing in any orifice I want. It's not the orifice which dictates STD transmission, but whether or not I wore a Jimmy when doing so.

 

It's like you're asking if we can avoid getting wet in the rain by walking in the street instead of walking on the sidewalk. The point being, it matters not where I walk if I'm wearing a raincoat.

[atomXY]

In reply to Sayonara,

 

I can't say it's an agenda. As said before i was having a conversation with some people in the chatroom regarding the differences between the vagina and the anus. We were discussing which one was more prone to STDs and what not. All I was trying to point at was that m/b there is some order in our universe that should be respected.

 

I basically just wanted to see if others would agree that there is some anatomical order that is better left respected.

[Sayonara]

I basically just wanted to see if others would agree that there is some anatomical order that is better left respected.

What you are trying to do here is impose arbitrary belief systems onto biological drives, and there is no place for them there.

 

Let me ask you this: does this 'order' extend to non-procreational sex? Surely having a penis in a vagina goes against the order of things if it is not going to lead to a pregnancy.

 

And don't even get me started on people wearing shoes and hats.

[atomXY]

Let me ask you this: does this 'order' extend to non-procreational sex? Surely having a penis in a vagina goes against the order of things if it is not going to lead to a pregnancy.

 

And don't even get me started on people wearing shoes and hats.

 

 

Wearing hats and shoes are actually beneficial. When it gets really cold, wearing hats and shoes can keep you warm and keep your toes from getting frost bite. They do serve some purpose. Hats can also block away the glare of the sun.

 

I would say that the 'order' would extend to non-procreational sex as well,

in that it's safer and healthier for our bodies.

[Sayonara]

Wearing hats and shoes are actually beneficial. When it gets really cold, wearing hats and shoes can keep you warm and keep your toes from getting frost bite. They do serve some purpose. Hats can also block away the glare of the sun.

So you don't think that repressing the physical side of a relationship for no substantial reason might be in the least bit psychologically and emotionally harmful to someone, I take it?

 

I would say that the 'order' would extend to non-procreational sex as well, in that it's safer and healthier for our bodies.

Yeah, I thought you might.

[atomXY]

So you don't think that repressing the physical side of a relationship for no substantial reason might be in the least bit psychologically and emotionally harmful to someone, I take it?

 

 

Yeah, I thought you might.

 

I think I actually did give a fair amount of substantial reasons, anatomically speaking. There are other ways to express love between people other than anal sex. I'm not here to throw stones.

 

Another argument that some propose is that if you feel the need to engage in things that have a high risk of harm for your body that you may actually already be hurting psychologically and emotionally.

 

That would get us into the whole nature versus nurture debate.

[iNow]

Another argument that some propose is that if you feel the need to engage in things that have a high risk of harm for your body that you may actually already be hurting psychologically and emotionally.

 

Yes, you're certainly right. I should really stop skydiving and doing martial arts (high risk of harm for me and my body) and instead look inward to figure out why I don't hate gays enough to spend my time rationalizing why it's wrong and exploring the likelihood of STD transmission by all of the different human orifices.

[atomXY]

Yes, you're certainly right. I should really stop skydiving and doing martial arts (high risk of harm for me and my body) and instead look inward to figure out why I don't hate gays enough to spend my time rationalizing why it's wrong and exploring the likelihood of STD transmission by all of the different human orifices.

 

 

I don't hate gay people..I have gay oriented friends that I LOVE. I've also

experimented both ways. All I'm saying is that maybe there is a way that our bodies are meant to function and maybe it would be better for us to use them in that manner.

[iNow]

I suggest you stop eating cheese if your primary concern is the healthy function of the human body, no alcohol either.

[Mr Skeptic]

I think that all of us do have an interest, however slight, in the health of others.

1) A higher rate of sickness among others, increases the chance that I might get sick as well.

2) A higher rate of sickness among others, increases the chance that my money will be used to pay for their treatment.

3) A higher rate of sickness among others, increases the chance that my money will be used to pay for the treatment of secondary infections to others.

4) A higher rate of sickness among others, decreases the contribution they make to the economy.

 

Others' sickness will have an effect on me, however slight.

[iNow]

So, let's at least be specific. Which STD are we talking about?

 

 

For a list of some, as well as the various routes of transmission:

http://www.doh.wa.gov/CFH/STD/factsheet.htm

http://www.doh.wa.gov/CFH/STD/Pub/STDBOOKLET06WEB.pdf

 

 

Here's what keeps confusing me. Based on everything I keep reading, anal is not the only way to contract these. Most seem to transmit via vaginal and oral contact, as well as mother-infant contact. That doesn't seem to mesh well with the OP.

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, and how are you controlling for other conditions, and frequency of coitus?

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS

Transmission of HIV depends on the infectiousness of the index case and the susceptibility of the uninfected partner. Infectivity seems to vary during the course of illness and is not constant between individuals. An undetectable plasma viral load does not necessarily indicate a low viral load in the seminal liquid or genital secretions. However, each 10-fold increase in the level of HIV in the blood is associated with an 81% increased rate of HIV transmission. Women are more susceptible to HIV-1 infection due to hormonal changes, vaginal microbial ecology and physiology, and a higher prevalence of sexually transmitted diseases. People who have been infected with one strain of HIV can still be infected later on in their lives by other, more virulent strains.

 

Infection is unlikely in a single encounter. High rates of infection have been linked to a pattern of overlapping long-term romantic relationships. This allows the virus to quickly spread to multiple partners who in turn infect their partners. A pattern of serial monogamy or occasional casual encounters is associated with lower rates of infection.

Edited November 2, 2008 by iNow

[YT2095]

if your primary concern is the healthy function of the human body, no alcohol either.

 

I`ll drink to that! Bottoms Up

[Callie]

Another argument that some propose is that if you feel the need to engage in things that have a high risk of harm for your body that you may actually already be hurting psychologically and emotionally.

 

Have you ever thought about how dangerous pregnancy and child birth is?

[Mr Skeptic]

Have you ever thought about how dangerous pregnancy and child birth is?

 

That's why you can avoid that with safe sex.

[iNow]

Alright... To be more fair to the OP... Anal sex tends to be more restrictive and less lubricated than vaginal sex. Therefore, the risk of breaking small blood vessels is higher, and the higher friction means the risk of penile injury (scrapes and cuts) can also be higher... relative to vaginal sex.

 

With that said, the difference seems too slight to concern oneself with. There are vaginal tears and fluid exchanges in vaginal sex as well. It is abundantly clear that the greatest protection comes from prophylaxis, not choosing a different orifice of entry.

 

I think that the OP has made up their mind that homosexuality is wrong, and that anal sex is "unnatural," so is therefore attempting to rationalize this pre-existing mindset based on data which is really quite weak.

 

People do what they want. People want different things from you. Deal with it, and stop trying to impose your personal morality on society at large, stop trying force the morality of others onto yourself, and stop trying to use half-baked interpretations of scientific data as your crutch when doing so.

[Sayonara]

I think I actually did give a fair amount of substantial reasons, anatomically speaking.

Just because you can describe anatomy in terms of how different parts of it compare for different purposes, it does not follow that you can infer any kind of value judgment from that comparison. This is why your "substantial reasons" do not reinforce your argument.

 

There are other ways to express love between people other than anal sex.

What, like fingering? Or maybe auto-erotic asphyxiation. Perhaps there is a special place in this order of yours for fisting.

 

Another argument that some propose is that if you feel the need to engage in things that have a high risk of harm for your body that you may actually already be hurting psychologically and emotionally.

That's not an argument, it's a proposal. And it's a really weak one. People don't skydive because they are psychologically impaired and they don't drive on the freeway because they are emotionally damaged.

 

Faulty assumptions = faulty conclusions.

 

That would get us into the whole nature versus nurture debate.

No it wouldn't, because that's something entirely different.

 

 

Have you ever thought about how dangerous pregnancy and child birth is?

Very good point.

 

That's why you can avoid that with safe sex.

Or indeed anal sex, muah ha ha.

[Callie]

"up the bum no babies"

[Mr Skeptic]

That's why you can avoid [pregnancy'] with safe sex.

 

Or indeed anal sex, muah ha ha.

 

Now there is something I hadn't thought of. I wonder if anal sex has been used much for birth control before modern contraceptives? I do know that unwanted pregnancies, and abortions, and for that matter, legitimate pregnancies, were all incredibly dangerous things to women in the olden days. I do know that there were attempts at avoiding pregnancy before, but not if anal sex was one of them nor for how long.

[atomXY]

Alright... To be more fair to the OP... Anal sex tends to be more restrictive and less lubricated than vaginal sex. Therefore, the risk of breaking small blood vessels is higher, and the higher friction means the risk of penile injury (scrapes and cuts) can also be higher... relative to vaginal sex.

 

With that said, the difference seems too slight to concern oneself with......... stop trying to use half-baked interpretations of scientific data as your crutch when doing so.

 

 

There is nothing half baked about the following information...It comes from a very unbiased site...Once again I have experimented with same sex activity and opposite sex. This isn't about bias it's about anatomy.

 

 

 

STDs: Anal sex is the highest risk sex act that men who have sex with men can perform. Virtually every STD can pass between partners during anal sex, and for most, penetration isn't necessary and a condom may not protect you. STDs are harder to diagnose when they are inside your anal canal and not on your penis. STDs commonly passed during anal sex include: HIV, herpes simplex, gonorrhea, syphilis, molluscum contagiosum, crabs, human papillomavirus (HPV), hepatitis, and chlamydia. MEN: Put a condom on early -- as soon as you anticipate contact between the anus and penis. Remember that fingers and toys used during foreplay can also carry STDs between partners. A condom doesn't cover the base of your partner's shaft, his scrotum or pubic hair -- these are all places where STDs can lurk or land.

HIV Risk

 

 

Anal sex is the highest risk sex act two men can perform. This is also true for a woman if she's the anal receptive partner with a man. Your risk increases dramatically in proportion to the number or partners you have and if your sex is unprotected (whether you are inserting or receiving). One medical study published in 1987 found that anal sex with one partner increased your chances of catching HIV by three times -- five or more partners increased it 18 times.

 

 

http://www.gayhealth.com/templates/common/activity.html?record=2&searchwords=ANAL,SEX

 

 

and anal sex isn't that great as a source of prevention of pregnancy because semen has been able to drip from the anus to the vagina and result in pregnancy.

[Sayonara]

There is nothing half baked about the following information...It comes from a very unbiased site...Once again I have experimented with same sex activity and opposite sex. This isn't about bias it's about anatomy.

We aren't worried about a bias in the information; we're concerned about your motives. Or, more specifically, why you are targeting this particular sex act when the espousing of concerns for peoples' health and safety should, one would imagine, not be restricted to such an arbitrary scope.

 

and anal sex isn't that great as a source of prevention of pregnancy because semen has been able to drip from the anus to the vagina and result in pregnancy.

I'm guessing that happens less often than the 2% condom failure rate.

[iNow]

and anal sex isn't that great as a source of prevention of pregnancy because semen has been able to drip from the anus to the vagina and result in pregnancy.

 

Yeah, my girlfriend is always giving me a hard time, telling me I can't put it in her ass because it might cause her to get pregnant. It's very troubling to our relationship.

 

 

 

Again, wear a condom. Problem solved (the overwhelming majority of the time).