ParanoiA Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Your anger, however, will unless you let it go or become the change you wish to see. That's funny, because that's the crossroad I had to deal with years ago and so I did that iNow. I rejected the false representation, the dishonor, the disrespect to our republic perpetrated by politicians to get in office. I rejected the notion that they didn't have to conduct themselves as honorable as I did to get MY job. I became the change I wish to see. So, when are you going to be the change you wish to see? Or is the likes of Obama as high as you're willing to set the bar? I've been trying to keep quiet; to let the Obamans enjoy their victory. But I feel similar to ecoli. His anger isn't what you think, if I can be so presumptuous, I think it's more of a sigh and a refusal to give in to what we perceive as emotional facades. But hey, don't take my comments too harsh, I just wanted to take up for ecoli. You have to remember, from our perspective we voted for the republic yesterday, and was thrown away since 99% of the rest of the country did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 That's funny, because that's the crossroad I had to deal with years ago and so I did that iNow. I rejected the false representation, the dishonor, the disrespect to our republic perpetrated by politicians to get in office. I rejected the notion that they didn't have to conduct themselves as honorable as I did to get MY job. I became the change I wish to see. Yes. The funny part is that I'm already frustrated and I've only been subscribing to these beliefs for a year. I can't imagine how Dr. Paul or other long timers put up with 60 years of being marginalized and ignored. I imagine it helps to be around others who agree with you... which is why I find myself surprised to be hanging out with conservatives lately. So, when are you going to be the change you wish to see? Or is the likes of Obama as high as you're willing to set the bar? OTOH, Obama could be the stepping stone to change, even if he's too "mainstream" to really be the change that I'm interested in seeing. I know its a moot point now, but I wonder if I would have been any happier if McCain had won, and why. I've been trying to keep quiet; to let the Obamans enjoy their victory. me too, but its been hard, esp. with the amount of mindless Obamans on my college campus. I write a [bi]weekly article in my uni's campus publication, usually about austrian economics or libertarian ideology; i was planning on writing a scathing piece about Obama's tax plan but choose to focus instead on reassuring us losers to keep our chins up (and blasting the repubs for giving up their small government ideals). I just can't wait until they realize Obama's not going to be able to live up on even half of what he delivers, and what he manages to deliver isn't going to be as great as everyone thinks. But I feel similar to ecoli. His anger isn't what you think, if I can be so presumptuous, I think it's more of a sigh and a refusal to give in to what we perceive as emotional facades. I was really frustrated last night, for this very reason (how well you know me paranioA) but quite a bit calmer today. Ideas about free market capitalism aren't going away just yet (thank god for Cato, von Mises Institutes, et al). While Obama's victory has been largely emotional and probably will be for another couple of weeks, once he takes office, we'll see if that will keep up. Esp. when politics resumes as usual. But hey, don't take my comments too harsh, I just wanted to take up for ecoli. thanks buddy... I think I'd go insane without you here. You have to remember, from our perspective we voted for the republic yesterday, and was thrown away since 99% of the rest of the country did not. And that cashier I ran into at CVS last night, who I randomly found out also wrote in RP's name (after sharing mutual distain for a loud, racist McCain supporter). We'll keep up the good fight though and make sure our ideas don't get lost in the Obama nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I find it funny that you guys seem to see me as a some Obamaniac... all giddy with excitement and wetting myself when he won. I've been remarkably not excited since yesterday, but I also think he was the best choice available to us and the most likely to steer us toward something better. He's not Jesus, for Christ's sake, and I'm no sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 You can point at me with "Obamaniac" comments if you want. I plead temporary insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I find it funny that you guys seem to see me as a some Obamaniac... all giddy with excitement and wetting myself when he won. It was never my intention to characterize you in that way. I was talking about Obama supporters, in a general sense, obviously there's many different types of Obama supporters, from the reluctant to the "drooling idiots" (cough *pangloss* cough) I've been remarkably not excited since yesterday, but I also think he was the best choice available to us and the most likely to steer us toward something better. He's not Jesus, for Christ's sake, and I'm no sheep. He did claim to be superman, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I know its early, but so far, far from being a unifier, Obama has been divisive. Those who like him are completely enamored and have turned into drooling idiots. Those who dislike him have begun their snarling. Where's the promised unity? You're not helping much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 You're not helping much. that's my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bascule Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Let me just say that I was downtown last night and it felt a lot like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Well, to even things out a little, I will admit that I'm happy we have a black president finally. It's too bad it couldn't have been a more libertarian-ish kinda guy, but I do accept him as our president and hope for the best. Yes. The funny part is that I'm already frustrated and I've only been subscribing to these beliefs for a year. I can't imagine how Dr. Paul or other long timers put up with 60 years of being marginalized and ignored. I imagine it helps to be around others who agree with you... which is why I find myself surprised to be hanging out with conservatives lately. I've accepted my minority position in politics and have no real hope that my ideals will be exercised by anyone in my lifetime, maybe not in our future. But I can live with that as it's what I believe in my heart and mind. I think most of us liberty fanatics can relate with that. It's frustrating to be marginalized, but it's also gratifying to be true to our beliefs. No man is equal to his rhetoric, but we certainly try. Also, people like iNow can be gratifying as well. He may not be in lock-step with us, or even on the same end of the political spectrum as us, but he listens, takes it in, and respects our views when their laid out fairly. I appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 He did claim to be superman, however. Did he? Pay attention to what he says, not what people say about him. He's been the object of crazy levels of adoration, and lots of people probably have very unrealistic expectations. That's true. But his rhetoric has remained consistently and even amazingly humble, considering everything. He's always been completely frank about the difficulties we're facing, even as it's been framed in defiant optimism (or "audacious hope," if you will). Look over that acceptance speech again. The whole speech. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doG Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 My only dissatisfaction is that the result has been called already. The electors of the Electoral college chosen on the first Tuesday afte the first Monday in November should now vet the candidates thoroughly before casting their votes on the first Monday afte the second Wednesday in December and we should not no whom the winner is until those ballots have been opened in the Senate and counted, if a winner is determined at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bascule Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 You are aware the electoral college is just a formality at this point, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Did he? Pay attention to what he says, not what people say about him. He's been the object of crazy levels of adoration, and lots of people probably have very unrealistic expectations. That's true. But his rhetoric has remained consistently and even amazingly humble, considering everything. He's always been completely frank about the difficulties we're facing, even as it's been framed in defiant optimism (or "audacious hope," if you will). Look over that acceptance speech again. The whole speech. Seriously. No dude... he said that at the Al Smith dinner. It was a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 No dude... he said that at the Al Smith dinner. It was a joke Can be viewed here: http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=281814-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 No dude... he said that at the Al Smith dinner. It was a joke Oh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doG Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 You are aware the electoral college is just a formality at this point, right? That's a big part of the problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 It's interesting because I was actually battling this out with some buddies here at work. I suggested we shouldn't even be effectively polled by our state governments in the form of popular vote because that circumvents the insulation from pandering to the public; that we might get better quality executives. Kind of torn though, because that would also appear to undermine answering directly to the people, which is arguably the basis of a republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doG Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Kind of torn though, because that would also appear to undermine answering directly to the people, which is arguably the basis of a republic. Except the President is NOT a representative of the people but is the Executive Branch. The people and the States have their representatives in the Representative Branch, they don't need to vote for one in the Executive Branch too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 I believe they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Except the President is NOT a representative of the people but is the Executive Branch. The people and the States have their representatives in the Representative Branch, they don't need to vote for one in the Executive Branch too. Yeah, I realize that and I'm questioning it. I'm not sure how comfortable I am with the president not being a representative of the people. I'm on board with the concept of an appointed Senate over popular vote, but I'm just not entirely sold on the presidency being so insulated from the populus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bascule Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 That's a big part of the problem.... I guess I'm one of those crazy people who thinks the electoral college is antiquated and needs to be abolished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 We should allow text message voting or online voting. So long as we put proper controls in place, I see this as move into the future which would allow the populace much greater participation and involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riogho Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Text-Messaging voting would be hard to regulate, because someone could just grab your phone and text in Palin to someone. Internet voting, however, seems like it'd be a good idea. Do it county-by-county, using your social security number and stuff. That sounds pretty good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Text-Messaging voting would be hard to regulate, because someone could just grab your phone and text in Palin to someone. Internet voting, however, seems like it'd be a good idea. Do it county-by-county, using your social security number and stuff. That sounds pretty good couldn't someone just grab your laptop and do the same thing?? Force you SS information, or w/e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 couldn't someone just grab your laptop and do the same thing?? Force you SS information, or w/e. If biometrics were more in use, then it might work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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