Just when you thought there was hope for Americans....

[Pangloss]

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/11/28/black.friday.violence/

 

...a temporary Wal-Mart employee was trampled to death in a rush of thousands of early morning shoppers as he and other employees attempted to unlock the doors of a Long Island, New York, store at 5 a.m., police said.

 

 

Sometimes I just have to shake my head at the sheer idiocy of some people.

[ParanoiA]

Yeah I read that earlier and just couldn't believe it. How absolutely shameful.

 

I don't know why, but I always wonder how families deal with tragedies that occur on holidays, or notable times of celebration, like birthdays and so forth. This poor young man's family has to deal with this every thanksgiving, indefinitely. Black Friday is an appropriate term, I think.

[Pangloss]

The thing that really gets me, tragic that it is (because it's not even "evolution in action", right? -- these people hurt someone else), is just the sheer stupidity of the big picture here. This was a Wal-Mart, so I would be willing to wager that a significant number of those people in line have been struggling to make their house payments, or were standing in line the previous day to pick up food stamps, which are being issued at an all-time record rate.

 

But by god they'll find $700 to squeeze into their credit cards for a television. That digital transition is only 80 days away, you know! What would we do without "The Office" or "Desperate Housewives"?!?!?!?!?!

 

(Of course, I play video games, so maybe I'm just as bad?)

[Gilded]

That's just so wrong. During the past year I've read quite a bit of news about people getting trampled in temples in religious gatherings and whatnot, but I guess some people are just as zealous about shopping.

 

(Black humor: In Soviet Russia, capitalism gets crushed by you!)

[gcol]

That is surely just the human condition. In general we are sad, unworthy, selfish and violent. We either have to accept it and get on with it, or sit around in sackcloth and ashes, wailing and waiting for Armageddon. Or perhaps St. Obama will save you all? Dream on.

[ParanoiA]

The thing that really gets me, tragic that it is (because it's not even "evolution in action", right? -- these people hurt someone else), is just the sheer stupidity of the big picture here. This was a Wal-Mart, so I would be willing to wager that a significant number of those people in line have been struggling to make their house payments, or were standing in line the previous day to pick up food stamps, which are being issued at an all-time record rate.

 

But by god they'll find $700 to squeeze into their credit cards for a television. That digital transition is only 80 days away, you know! What would we do without "The Office" or "Desperate Housewives"?!?!?!?!?!

 

(Of course, I play video games, so maybe I'm just as bad?)

 

Unless you're receiving food stamps or WIC I'm not thinking you're just as bad at all. Nothing wrong with enjoying consumption when you're responsible enough to afford it.

 

I'm having a hard time processing the idea of rushing through the doors in the first place. Even if I was all excited about shopping, I still can't fathom that behavior. They unlock the doors, and I calmy walk inside. What's with the stampede? I just don't get it.

 

But yeah, you're right, that's pretty sickening when you consider the percentage of those people receiving government aid, releiving the pressure on their wallets to afford amenities - and this poor guy, working - gets the shit end of the stick.

[doG]

Just think, we let mobs like that vote too. Are such voters really interested in what's best for us all or are they just thinking of themselves?

[ParanoiA]

And that's precisely why I stand against disproportionate tax leverage. Of course they're thinking of themselves over the good of us all, it's actually quite natural and predictable.

[Sisyphus]

Well now, come on. A deadly, stampeding mob of rabid Walmart shoppers is pretty low on the list of groups I would have expected to be defending, but you don't anything about these people. You don't know they can't afford the stuff they're shopping for, you just know they're so oblivious and they want it so badly right now that they can literally trample a person to death to get it.

 

...um, actually, I don't have the heart for this. Say whatever you want about them. Ugh.

[ParanoiA]

No one said they couldn't afford it. We just thought there was an extra dash of insult considering the nature of Wal-mart customers. Sorry if that's offensive, but I lived it and I see them in every Wal-mart store no matter what state I'm living in. The attitude and behavior of welfare junkies is generally appauling and is notably different than those who successfully thrive in this country. They are generally more selfish and irreverant, in my experience anyway. And I'm holding back here...

 

More importantly though, it's sad that our consumerism should be so idiotic and devoid of common consideration and just simple manners. Adults can't even control themselves enough to walk into a store without trampling someone? Really? In modern civilized society?

[iNow]

Who ever said our society was modern or civilized? I've seen far more depressing and disturbing attitudes and actions than an accidental trampling at the walmart store, and I know you have, too.

[ParanoiA]

Good point. Good thing I've got college football to enjoy today or else I might just go back to bed...

[Dudde]

I remember last year when some guy found out that someone had JUST taken the last computer he wanted at wal mart, so he found the guy in the front of the store, punched his face and took the computer out of the cart. Luckily I think that dude was arrested, how weak and lame

 

this is what generally keeps me inside, hooray for games!

[ParanoiA]

It gets worse...

 

Other workers were trampled as they tried to rescue the man, and customers stepped over him and became irate when officials said the store was closing because of the death, police and witnesses said.

 

Dozens of store employees trying to fight their way out to help Damour were also getting trampled by the crowd, Fleming said. Witnesses said that even as the worker lay on the ground, shoppers streamed into the store, stepping over him.

 

Kimberly Cribbs, who witnessed the stampede, said shoppers were acting like "savages."

 

"When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling, 'I've been on line since yesterday morning,"' she said. "They kept shopping."

 

Wow. That's my countrymen right there. Gee, how selfish can a person be? I'm afriad of the answer to that question.

 

They're reviewing tape to ID those responsible - I can't wait to see them change their tune and start crying for sympathy.

[Phi for All]

So you line up at 9pm the day before the sale. You spend the night camped out as the throng swells to 2000 people in the 8 hours you're there. Finally, the guy opens the door as the crowd behind surges forward and presses you up against the front of the store. I'm willing to bet no one even noticed the employee went down and I'd be shocked if anyone had had the presence of mind to stop to help, losing the "place" they'd held so long. I think at that point people who avoided stepping on him thought they were being magnanimous.

 

It's terrible, indeed, but not surprising given the circumstance. A person can be caring and generous and concerned, but "people" are selfish, mindless jerks, especially when they have only one thing on their tiny but focused collective brain. In a situation like that people can justify just about anything, sad as that is.

 

I tried getting a Wii console the week before and was told to stop in Friday morning at 5am. I was NOT getting up that early for shopping, but I had no idea so many people camp out like that. What I want to know is this: since the trampling happened 2 hours before *my* WalMart opened, did WalMart bother to have their employees warn customers over the parking lot loudspeakers about the accidental death in time zones west of EST, and to please watch out for each other as the doors open?

[ecoli]

I know that mall... my grandparents live right near it. It's not too far from a movie theatre that frequently experiences shootings from gang violence.

[Pangloss]

Phi it's funny you mention the Wii. Nintendo has been accused of manipulating their manufacturing process to keep availability short and demand high. Obviously it would be a stretch to suggest that they are complicit here, but I do do think there's a lot of manipulation that goes on that people aren't aware of.

[Phi for All]

I'm no fan of Nintendo marketing. They sell the console for just above cost and then rape you on the games. It'd be like buying a car for half price but you have to buy special gas at $12 a gallon.

 

And I'm no fan of WalMart marketing either. Sell the cheapest stuff and make your profit by replacing it when it wears out in a few months. We never seem to learn that a $5 t-shirt looks like crap after 5 washings.

 

I have a pair of wool hiking socks I bought 9 years ago for $12. One pair, $12 in 1999. I felt like a Rockefeller at the time, but you know what? I still have those socks, I wear them once a week in the winter and they still have no holes and haven't shrunk or stretched.

 

Perhaps the anger involved in the WalMart incident is a subconscious loathing of this philosophy of dirt cheap. People love well-crafted stuff that is actually cheaper over the life of the product but we hate passing up a "deal" and perhaps hate ourselves for falling prey to the marketers.

[ydoaPs]

Can't you buy items from Walmart online?

[Pangloss]

Perhaps the anger involved in the WalMart incident is a subconscious loathing of this philosophy of dirt cheap. People love well-crafted stuff that is actually cheaper over the life of the product but we hate passing up a "deal" and perhaps hate ourselves for falling prey to the marketers.

 

Nicely put.

 

BTW do you know about GameFly? It's like Netflix for games. Really reduces the cost. I've been using it for about 8 months now and it's really great. One nice thing about it is that if you like a game you can click on the "Keep It" button and they'll send you the packaging, and your total cost for that game is something like half what it would have cost you new, so it's like getting a used game but with the security of already knowing that the disc will play, plus you had a chance to see if you were going to like it before deciding whether to buy it.

 

I actually sold my Wii, btw. Fun stuff, just not something I was using all that often outside of parties and family gatherings, etc.

[Phi for All]

Can't you buy items from Walmart online?

I guess the extra $ for shipping isn't offset by the 8 hours of camping out in the late November night, the camaraderie of your fellow rabid shoppers and you know, the possibility of a good trampling afterward.

 

BTW do you know about GameFly?

Someone else was telling me about it. I'll definitely check it out. I don't do a whole lot of gaming, but I'm sure I'll start doing more with the Wii. And cursing the $50 a pop for games.

 

I actually sold my Wii, btw. Fun stuff, just not something I was using all that often outside of parties and family gatherings, etc.

I'm hoping this will be something I can join my wife and daughter with. So often my wife is at her laptop, I'm at mine and my daughter is playing something on her GameBoy. It was upgrade her to DS or get the Wii for all of us.

[Phi for All]

People who make purchases based on price alone are on the wrong side of the quantity vs quality equation, imo. The idea of lowest prices = best deal inspires this kind of rabid shopper mentality. It lowers the expectations of the consumer and equates demand with cost-effectiveness.

 

It's easy to prove that better quality is usually a more cost-effective purchase, but lowest price captures the short-term, convenience mentality. By implying that low-cost supplies are limited, WalMart and retailers like them prime the pump for the kind of manic frenzy witnessed on Friday. When it's all about you-snooze-you-lose, people line up and treat shopping like a commando obstacle course.

 

It's odd, but it's like people don't want to get screwed by being left behind on the best "deals", while their subconscious is telling them they're getting screwed anyway. This consumer conflict is turning vicious and I'll bet it's going to get worse if the economy doesn't get better.

Edited December 1, 2008 by ecoli

[ecoli]

stupid posts removed/ trimmed...