Mod Note (use of word "ignorant") (unstickied 12/08)

[Pangloss]

I need to see phrases like the ones below disappear from discussion here:

 

For someone who is so fond of free market ideas, you seem surprisingly ignorant about its failings.

 

Your incessant ignorance continues to make you blind.

 

What's unthinkable is your ignorance and bias.

 

How does your ignorant post have anything whatsoever to do with the constitutionality of equal protection to our citizens?

 

I know you'll just respond with another ignorant post....

 

The technical accuracy of these kinds of statements is irrelevant. Open discussion is not about making your opponent look like a fool. This sort of thing actually stiffles the free and open exchange of ideas and opinions. Do you want your opponents to tell you what they think, or do you want them to shut up and comply? Pick one.

 

Thanks.

[iNow]

Do you want your opponents to tell you what they think, or do you want them to shut up and comply? Pick one.

 

How much time do I have to decide? Also, btw, it's a false dichotomy.

[Pangloss]

Moderator's privilege.

 

But seriously, I left this thread open for a reason. If you have an objection, I'm listening.

[iNow]

No, I don’t have any real objections, maybe a suggestion, though.. I consider you a friend, and have nothing personal against you, but I do think that sometimes you seem to take a Honeymooners (or Homer Simpson choking Bart) approach to moderation... "Why I oughta!!"

 

More explicitly, you tend often to put in giant red letters "Knock it off," or "Cut it out." It reminds me a lot of the father figure driving cross country with the family in the stationwagon in a 1960s sitcom. He’s getting frustrated that his “children” are acting up in the back seat and he keeps threatening the kids that he's "gonna turn this car around right now" if they don't quit... which, he basically never did.

 

I appreciate your desire for civility, the need for avoiding personal attacks, and also recognize the inherent difficulty of maintaining decorum in a Politics forum, where people with strong personalities are battling gladiator style on soft concepts and opinions.

 

With that said, though... Just freakin' moderate and be done with it. If you’re unsure about something, ask for opinions from the other staff, but please, for the love of flying spaghetti monsters, stop with the empty threats, and the condescending tone (“You know better! I won’t have any more of this!”).

 

If someone does something wrong, then infract them and move on. If someone's logic is faulty, point out where and move on. If they don’t respond to these corrective actions, escalate accordingly and scale your response with problem you seek to ameliorate. Also, be specific. Quote specific sentences by specific posters which distress you. I've seen too often where you'll respond after 3 pages of thread and not quote anything, simply yelling "stop it!" It's like, "Huh? Who? Which part? There's been a lot of things said here..." Just be specific. Quote bits like you did in the OP (but within the thread), and say, "This is not appropriate. It will result in an infraction next time." Botta bing... You're done.

 

Frankly, the repeated calls for "these types of comments need to stop" do you more harm than good, as it shows that you are somewhat powerless to take more meaningful actions. I don’t want you to read too far into this, though, as I see how much you are trying to provide everyone with an open floor, and that’s truly commendable, and damned hard to accomplish. You want ideas and opinions to be expressed, and for everyone to do so while being respectful and considerate of the membership and readers, and it’s fine line to walk sometimes. Again, these aren’t objections, per se, more suggestions than anything else.

 

With that said, there’s nothing wrong with criticism of faulty ideas, nor of demonstrating problems in thinking. Also, sometimes it's important to just call a spade a spade, and as long as ones comments are supported and backed up intelligently, it's not inherently a bad thing when members ostracize certain beliefs or worldviews (like racism or jingoism).

 

We’d all perhaps be better off if people would just grow thicker skins. I want those who disagree with me to tell me what they think, but, in reality, sometimes after their points have been debunked, they really should shut up and comply.

 

Speaking of which, I’ll step down off the soap box, now. I only commented since one of the five quotes in your OP was directed at me, and three of the others were made by me, and all context was stripped, as they were each made within a single post to a member who was spouting hate speech.

Edited December 1, 2008 by iNow

[Riogho]

I want a cookie for reading this thread.

[Sisyphus]

The ignorance on display in this thread is appalling.

[Sayonara]

Ignorance causes facial deformity. FACT.

 

And what Pangloss said.

[doG]

Just say "attack the message, not the messenger"...

[Riogho]

The ignorance on display in this thread is appalling.

 

The fact that I want a cookie is appalling . How can anyone NOT want a cookie?

[bascule]

Ignorance is next to godliness... or is that cleanliness... one of the two

[Pangloss]

Also, sometimes it's important to just call a spade a spade, and as long as ones comments are supported and backed up intelligently, it's not inherently a bad thing when members ostracize certain beliefs or worldviews (like racism or jingoism).

 

I don't disagree with that. As doG says, attack the message, not the messenger.

 

I *like* being Mr. Stompy in here, and I know it can be annoying -- that's kinda the point. But I'll try to be more restrained with it -- it's not really our way here at SFN, it's just something that can occasionally work within the context of this subboard, IMO. But I do take your feedback seriously and I appreciate it (when was the last time you saw me shrug at anyone?).

[iNow]

I guess I'd been holding that in for a while, huh? It came across much more negatively than I intended it. Sorry about that. I had actually planned on PMing you about those exact points just a few days ago, but never got around to it.

 

Speaking of PMs, that's another thing I think you do well. Sometimes there will be a hot topic or a heated debate, and you'll take the time to send a PM. Usually, it's something simple like, "Hey, I notice things are getting aggressive and emotional over in thread Y. Try to keep it civil and calm before things escalate." I've always really appreciated that, and such a step goes much farther with me personally than "Mr Stompy" ever will. When I see "Mr Stompy" coming, I tend to quickly become "Mr Go F Yourself."

[Pangloss]

No worries at all, and thanks.