Can Working Wings Be Grafted on a Human? [Answered: NO]

[cetus]

but we could try to do it on other mammals firts like monkeys than progress onto humans

[John Cuthber]

It would still be lethal.

What have you got against monkeys?

[cetus]

nothing but its the same as doing it to a human

just more primitive

any how we could just start on mice or rats

[GDG]

u could graft avian DNA into the steam cells of a human fetus then it could have all the necessary parts of a bird

 

A great albatross has a wingspan of over 11 feet (3 m), but weighs only up to about 24 lbs (11 kg). How big a wingspan would you need to lift a human, weighing around 70 kg? Now, how much muscle would you need just to flap those wings (add the weight of that muscle, along with the weight of the wings themselves, to the 70 kg body weight). Basically, we're a bit too big for practical flight.

 

As for splicing avian DNA into humans, I think you'd quickly find yourself in prison.

[cetus]

i did say we could start on mice or rats

also the largest flying bird was the Argentavis magnificens

they would have been a lot heavier than humans

 

i wont tell the police or any one else is a create a human-avain hybrid

i know its illigle in some countrys

i will find one that has no laws against it

Edited May 13, 2009 by cetus

[gingergirl63]

I'll repost what I have dug up from another website.

 

This seems rather accurate, don't you think?

 

" I think, that although it will take years we do have a chance at flight. There would have to be a DNA cocktail though, not just bird and human. You would need the DNA of certain insects as their exoskeletal structure (in the unique honeycomb formation) would provide the human body with a skeleton capable of withstanding the stresses of flight and flight muscles, the insect DNA would essentially make our bones light and incredibly strong. You would also need DNA from some type of ape

, preferably the orangutan, as the fibrous strings that make up their muscle mass confer a strength much greater than their appearance would suggest, as in they have a higher strength to mass ratio (using this DNA, wouldn't deform the human musculature or appearance, merely take the place of what composes the muscles themselves). We would also need to have croc DNA to give us a second pair of eyelids, as i for one, do not want to be blinded by every oncoming bug & whereas I think a pair of raybans may look pretty good, they would fall off, not to mention the obvious benefits to the Australian salt water crocodile's immune system, the only natural immune system with a near 100% effectiveness against all forms of disease, bacterial and viral. This makes us far more likely to survive any diseases we may (with gene manipulation) become susceptible to. And finally we could use the DNA of certain birds that live at high altitude, for their ability to process and survive on much lower oxygen saturation rates, not to mention the incredible eyesight of the raptors, which can see with 20/20 vision over vast distances and up close."

 

source: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=144394

 

I most likely will not respond to any quotes, I' merely putting some of the facts out there

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A great albatross has a wingspan of over 11 feet (3 m), but weighs only up to about 24 lbs (11 kg). How big a wingspan would you need to lift a human, weighing around 70 kg? Now, how much muscle would you need just to flap those wings (add the weight of that muscle, along with the weight of the wings themselves, to the 70 kg body weight). Basically, we're a bit too big for practical flight.

 

As for splicing avian DNA into humans, I think you'd quickly find yourself in prison.

 

It wouldn't be just avian and human DNA. it would have to be a mix. The DNA of an insect (exoskeleton) would provide a lightweight strong material thanks to their unique honeycomb formation. As for the muscles, we would need some primate DNA, most likely an orangutan because of their powerful mass/strength ratio. Maybe some crocodile DNA mixed in because of the 2nd eyelid (to prevent being blinded by bugs) and their nearly 100% immune system (who knows what diseased we could be affected with after gene mutation?). Never the less, the wingspan would have to be very large, anywhere from 11 feet to maybe 20 feet? Stuff that big would require major calories, and even so, we would only be able to fly for short periods of time.

[Mokele]

Um, that's a load of pseudoscientific garbage.

 

You would need the DNA of certain insects as their exoskeletal structure (in the unique honeycomb formation) would provide the human body with a skeleton capable of withstanding the stresses of flight and flight muscles, the insect DNA would essentially make our bones light and incredibly strong.

 

Wrong. Firstly, you cannot just shove any DNA into any other DNA. Second, Chitin is weaker than bone, not stronger.

Third, bone does not limit flight ability, as evidenced by some truly huge vertebrate flyers.

 

You would also need DNA from some type of ape

, preferably the orangutan, as the fibrous strings that make up their muscle mass confer a strength much greater than their appearance would suggest, as in they have a higher strength to mass ratio (using this DNA, wouldn't deform the human musculature or appearance, merely take the place of what composes the muscles themselves).

 

Wrong again - there is no convincing evidence that ape muscles are inherently different from our own in any way.

 

We would also need to have croc DNA to give us a second pair of eyelids, as i for one, do not want to be blinded by every oncoming bug & whereas I think a pair of raybans may look pretty good, they would fall off, not to mention the obvious benefits to the Australian salt water crocodile's immune system, the only natural immune system with a near 100% effectiveness against all forms of disease, bacterial and viral.

 

Croc nictating membranes are cloudy, and allow only poor vision.

 

Also, their immune system is *not* perfect. I've worked with captive crocodilians, and can assure you they *do* get sick.

 

And finally we could use the DNA of certain birds that live at high altitude, for their ability to process and survive on much lower oxygen saturation rates, not to mention the incredible eyesight of the raptors, which can see with 20/20 vision over vast distances and up close."

 

Let me rephrase that for you: "And we need to make our body 50% respiratory system by volume". Seriously, birds are mostly air.

 

Never the less, the wingspan would have to be very large, anywhere from 11 feet to maybe 20 feet?

 

20 feet would be a bare minimum, to ensure a tolerable wing loading.

 

I most likely will not respond to any quotes, I' merely putting some of the facts out there

 

Then why are you here? Let's hope it's not to dispense any more of your "facts".

[cetus]

for human to fly they would need to wieght less than 50kg and have a wing span of 20-40 feet you can not walk around with wings that big

[cameron marical]

You can fold them.:}

[GDG]

You can fold them.:}

 

Indeed, they would fold in a stiff breeze. How sturdy could 40' wings be if your total weight couldn't exceed 50 kg (110 lbs)?

[cetus]

You can fold them.:}

 

even if you fold them you would look like the hunchback of notradame

do you know how big 20-40 feet is

[cameron marical]

no, hugha. I dont.

[Mokele]

See here.

 

Unfortunately, this only shows the overall animal. I recently got to speak with a guy who's worked with some of the original skeletal material who described the humerus (upper arm bone) as bigger than his chest (he was a pretty small, slender guy, but still...). Not just longer, wider too, in order to better resist the torques and bending stress. The bones were hollow, but huge.

[Inquisitive Stone]

Have you guys read the series Maximum Ride by James Patterson?

So if what you guys are saying about how wings have to huge for us humans and needs to be combined with more than one kind of DNA then the theory in that book about having 2% avian genes is all rubbish?

[Mokele]

Anything that involves humans + wings is pretty much rubbish.

[falcon9393]

Anything that involves humans + wings is pretty much rubbish.

 

much agreed!

cheers

[cetus]

but its still a good book

just the science is completly off

2 percent might be the wrong genes

u might have a human with a beack and wings but no proper bone strucher

[CharonY]

A malformed dead fetus is more likely.

[cetus]

yere death is almost always going to happen before birth

if not it will die strait away when born

[MM6]

Wrong again - there is no convincing evidence that ape muscles are inherently different from our own in any way.

 

This is tangential to this (absurd) discussion, but your statement reminded me of this article. I thought this was an interesting hypothesis (an inverse relationship exists between muscle control and maximal strength).

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090330200829.htm

[Mokele]

It's an interesting idea, but I'm suspicious that it accounts for any real differences in strength. Unfortunately, the best/easiest way to resolve it would be in-situ muscle physchiology, and I highly doubt anyone will get approval to lop off some human and chimp arms to test it.

[cetus]

why do humans think that u need wings to fly alone the closest we will be to flying is air tunnles or planes not genetic engineering

[ttyo888]

And there is a factor influences whether wing will work on a human

 

To lift a human of considerate weight, the force of two legs jumping will never by enough. Birds use their two legs for the production of speed before flying. So that's why there are no Giant Birds alive.

 

Pterosaurs on the other hand, use the forelimbs and hindlimbs in combination to produce thrust before a flight. And they got to the size of a small jet fighter for some of them.

 

Hope this helps. For your human, I think they will be on fours before they take off and depending on the wing structure, you might even need the wings themselves to push the ground.

[cetus]

that is what we were talking about a human is too heavy to fly even if you had a lot of adustments to the body it wont happen in the near futer if it even ever happens at all

[PhoenixChilde]

What about the Pterodactyl? they were able to fly and they were even heavier than your average human. Wouldn't we be able to look into the fossils of these prehistoric birds and figure out a correct ratio of mass to wingspan? And from there couldn't we create some form of bionic wings using carbon nano tubes that might suffice as a possible prototype? I'd be willing to be the one that tries them. And one more thing does anyone know any formulas that can help determine taper and lift? I’d like to look into building bionic wings to see if it’s possible with the developing technology in Biotechnology. I know it’s an idea for a time extremely far in the future but it wouldn’t hurt, would it?

 

...You’d need a team of physicist, biotechnicians, biologists, engineers, and people who are willing to help with the construction of such an anomaly; however the people who help with the construction would have to know a lot about carbon nano-tubes, so probably more biotechnicians than anything. Oh and you’d have to have an adequate supply of carbon nano-tubes. And correct me if I’m wrong aren’t carbon nano-tubes extremely light but ten times stronger than steel?