Can Working Wings Be Grafted on a Human? [Answered: NO]

[Mokele]

Technically, Pterodactyls were the size of sparrows. You're thinking of pterosaurs, particularly the big azhdarchids like Quetzalcoatlus.

 

The problem isn't that things as big as us *can't* fly, it's that the level of modification required to make it possible is so dramatic that the person could not really be called human anymore - literally every aspect of their morphology and physiology would need to be altered. No person could ever survive such alterations.

 

As for nanotubes, the strength of bone really isn't the limit. The problem is more the limits of muscle (and no artificial muscle can even come close to the real thing). Muscle has limited power output, which limits wing movement and thrust, which limits speed, which limits lift, which limits flyer weight.

[cameron marical]

What about someone of abnormally small size? Midgets have a lighter muscle to weight ratio do they not?

[Mokele]

That could be more possible, though of course massive morphological and physiological changes are still needed.

[Tolmosoff]

Dear Demo :

 

I think you should have fruit bat wings installed because they are large.

 

And you will get a movie contract as batman.

[cetus]

having bat wings installed is stupid did you not read this forum

the body would have to under take hunderads of ops to even have wings never mind flying

please read a forum before you comment

[morp]

a man could be modified to sail or to glide but not to fly like a bird.. To make a flying man many modifications would he needed. The bones must be lighter,the heart,he lungs ,the muscles must be heavier etc. the only part of the human body that could be reused to fly is his brain

[cetus]

yes but you would need to be going at speed or already be in the air to glide

and if you did all thoose thing then you might s ell ahve a flyiong human

[Mokele]

yes but you would need to be going at speed or already be in the air to glide

and if you did all thoose thing then you might s ell ahve a flyiong human

 

Not really - just launch from an elevated location, as modern condors do from clifs, or numerous gliding animals do from trees. Of course, humans can already do this with hang-gliders.

[Phi for All]

Not really - just launch from an elevated location, as modern condors do from clifs, or numerous gliding animals do from trees. Of course, humans can already do this with hang-gliders.

Wasn't that the convention with the animated show Gargoyles? They were humanoids with wings but even with supernatural strength, they couldn't get airborne even with a running start. They had to climb up a building and then launch themselves off to glide, and if they couldn't catch an updraft they could only glide so far, losing altitude slowly but inevitably.

 

I always liked the fact that they had that limitation, because it made more sense with those humanoid bodies.

[Mokele]

I never watched, so I don't know, but it makes sense. Even modest increased in surface area can allow excellent gliding (such as in gliding frogs, geckos, lizards, snakes, squirrels, etc), and need little in terms of increased muscles.

[Sisyphus]

Just thought of this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossamer_Albatross

 

Obviously not biological and so I realize not really a valid comparison. Still, it's human muscles supplying the power.

[granpa]

Wings on a human?

 

i was thinking, we could graft wings on a human with enough commitment and research... i have accounted for all the weight loss needed, lung and muscle expansions(including the heart), the traebuclae (i think thats how you spell it)

the neural mapping (connecting of nerves and waiting for the brain to map that limb), the energy requirements,skin engineered to be able to accept feathers, etc etc. but i need more info on what would be required as it would be extremly difficult to make an enzyme and a restriction enzyme to do all of this. it would take many years of perseverance and hardship, the personal ethics problem wouldn't help and it would require massive funding. im sure many of you would wish to be able to have wings (or a tail!) but i need more info and critisicm.

 

phew!

 

I think you'd be better off trying to download your brain into a bird sized robotic body.

 

if quantum computing works out then it could conceivably be pretty small. the fact that it would be millions of times faster wouldnt hurt matters either.

[Mr Skeptic]

Quantum computers are actually far slower than regular computers (per cycle). You won't be seeing GHz quantum computers anytime soon.

[alex folen]

Actually, take a small young human of the most perfect type. Train non-stop with all the mental and physical practices and yes including steroids. Train that unfortunate individual, probably of a male species, on a machine to exercise 24/7 or scientifically suitable for maximum performance. Do this for 10 years or more. Then add another 1000 unfortunate candidates to the experiment to do the same. (Not Mengele, but curious of the question. Using only today?s technology (and then plus 10 years or more) I believe it is possible for this type of human to sustain flight with some newly devised, strong and light weight articulating (in some fashion or form) wings adapted to the body. Arms and even legs possibly linked to the flapping mechanism. So there! Let?s not forget about time ? evolution.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Mokele
Removing doublepost

[Mokele]

Still won't work. Muscles have limits to how much they can grow, and those limits are far, far below what's needed to power flight.

[alex folen]

OK, still wont work. Great. How many times have we hered that. Keep up the good advise and teachings. BTW, it dont work untill you have tried it.

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Consecutive posts merged

To be quite frank, scientifically speaking, nothing is impossible right? Speaking of human powered flight recently, it is ?how impossible it seems today.? I may be in the wrong forum. Thanks.

[Mokele]

Um, plenty of things are impossible, scientifically speaking. It's also worth nothing that many things are impossible in biology simply because living things lack 'the right equipment' at some level. In the case of flight, the limited power of muscle and limited strength of bone make it difficult for organisms to achieve the extremes of performance found in machines such as jets.

[Deko]

Basicaly I think alex is arguing (in a non-comperhesible fashion) that if you trained a human up to the maximum for the neccecery amount of time then he could fly with the aid of artificial wings. Then he goes on to say "well then their is evolution". And then quotes technological acheivements as a show of how humans of one generation have different knowledge and expectations of the next.

 

Ok so firstly the whole training up thing. Humans HAVE been pushing themselves to extremes for thousands of years. Weightlifters probably more notable than others in this regard have used steroids and all the scientific knowledge available to boost their performance. They HAVE succeeded in pushing themselves. Weightlifters nowadays can lift more than those say 1000 years ago. But not much more on the scale of things. There is only so much the human body can do. Your point about getting kids at an early age has also been a method adopted by parents wanting their children to progress faster. However science and history shows that at this age the body is not suited to stresses and strains and in turn does more damage the younger the person is from adulthood.

 

As for evolution mutating the ability for us to fly, my argument is why? Evolution is a process in which benificial adaptations shape a species. Humans who fly is definitely not advantageous for the forseeable future as we have clearly managed to fill our niche with unparalleled comfort. As for the human mind and civilizations thinking up more innovations and widening our technology with every generation as a comparison for what humans could physically do is a gross mistake. 100,000 years ago our physical side could not kill a buffalo, we needed axes, spears and traps...we needed our brains to fill in the limits of our bodies. Throughout the years our brains have always been our greatest asset. Our greatest feats mentally have always massively outweighed the physical ones. You wouldnt beat a bull in a tug of war but try and get it to do your accounting.

 

THE only way that winged humanoids could work is though genetic modifications, stem cell research and a lot of sick experiments. As it has been said before the resulting creature would not be human. And neither would be the scientists that attempted it.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Deko
insane_alien had difficulty reading a short passage.

[insane_alien]

Deko, have you ever heard of the paragraph?

 

Walls of text like that are extremely difficult to read.

[Psycho]

Um, plenty of things are impossible, scientifically speaking. It's also worth nothing that many things are impossible in biology simply because living things lack 'the right equipment' at some level. In the case of flight, the limited power of muscle and limited strength of bone make it difficult for organisms to achieve the extremes of performance found in machines such as jets.

Hm....I would avoid saying that they are impossible in biology, you just have to look at the diversity of life to look at quite frankly ridiculous things that evolution has brought about, i'm sure many things that don't happen could happen given millions of years and the evolutionary pressures, to say well really understand how they would form is a bit of joke.

 

So no humans couldn't be made to fly, but as someone mentioned with hand gliders you can fly along cliffs for many miles due to the up draft that forms from the sea below them, i'm not sure if this is the case if there is no water below but it maybe.

[Angel44709]

I've always wanted wings I'm 12 btw if u ever find anything at all be sure to spread it to other scientists.

I learned if u have more minds together anything is possible!

But seriously if u do find a way tell me!

Cuz this is me, a 12 year old girl pleading for answers to her questions!

[Angel44709]

Is it possible in the future?

[StringJunky]

No. Our bones are not hollow. We are too heavy. We have the wrong kind of muscle...etc...the list is very long.

[Phi for All]

Is it possible in the future?

 

If you're talking about an extra set of limbs, in addition to our set of arms and legs, then no. There would be no place for the necessary muscles, and there are no places for the limbs to grow from. We're vertebrates, and no vertebrate has more than four limbs (tails don't count).

 

Having our arms evolve into wings might be possible, but it would require extraordinary pressures over a very long time, and it would cost us much of what we value now. Our hands are a big part of our present development.

 

Our hands made it possible to fly without wings. You should study to become a pilot, that's the most feasible way for humans to fly.

[Harold Squared]

Microgravity. Even then, the largest and strongest skeletal muscles are in the human legs so it would make more sense to graft on great webbed feet and leave the hands free for a multitude of other tasks. The miracle of dexterity is what has given us, at long last, the power of flight, and such flights as no bird has ever dreamt of, at that.