Can Working Wings Be Grafted on a Human? [Answered: NO]

[Mokele]

Gliders tend to have bigger wing areas, longer, thinner wings, and to be larger overall. In muscle activity, I'm not entirely sure, but during gliding the activity is likely jut in the muscles that hold the wing up, rather than the large muscles that pull the wing down the deliver the powerstroke.

 

However, it's worth noting that gliding does not equal flight. Lots of organisms glide, but to be capable of maintaining steady, level flight, they need to flap, however infrequently. This means that a) you'll never get true flight from gliding and cannot build a design based on gliding animals and b) any gliding bird will still have the anatomy for flapping flight, as they need it to maintain altitude and to take off.

 

It could work if you can also modify how fast humans can run at (say 150 km/h or so), otherwise it is not enough to merely graft wings on them for them to fly...

 

Two problems: That would only work for takeoff (as they'd need to keep up such a speed when airborne in order to *stay* airborne), and such running speeds would be completely beyond the range of muscle physiology for a biped (remember, fast quadrupeds like greyhounds are fast in part because their quadrupedal gallop allows for long stride length, something we can't do without falling on our faces).

 

Mokele

[katcongrave77]

Even if we could we would have to combine homo sapiens and avian genetic traits. Would that be even possible? I think that the differences from the two types would lead to some problems. Plus you would have to have a huge circulatory system to supply the blood to the wings to be able to use them, unless you want to have wings attached that don't work. But could the human heart pump that much blood? Birds have to pump their blood at least over 200 times when resting per minute! Even the domestic chickens resting heart rate averages about 245 beats per minute. That would be a heart attack in the normal human being.

It could be possible with more research and if we make a super human that would be able to deal with the stress of having wings attached to them, physically and emotionally. It would be very hard to have wings when the rest of your species doesn't.

It would be sweet but scientifically very difficult.

[Reaper]

Two problems: That would only work for takeoff (as they'd need to keep up such a speed when airborne in order to *stay* airborne), and such running speeds would be completely beyond the range of muscle physiology for a biped (remember, fast quadrupeds like greyhounds are fast in part because their quadrupedal gallop allows for long stride length, something we can't do without falling on our faces).

 

Mokele

 

I know that, I was just imagining a scenario for which this crazy idea would actually work, without having to significantly modify our anatomy or doing brain transplants. And to show that this idea is, in principle, possible (ignoring the obvious engineering/anatomical difficulties involved, of course).

 

In physics we don't consider those inconveniences, we prefer to leave all the details to the engineers .

Edited January 4, 2009 by Reaper

[SkepticLance]

In theory you can put wings onto a human but there is no way he can be given the ability to fly using those biological wings. They would be cosmetic only.

 

If you want to fly without an aircraft, and without using biology, try a jet pack.

 

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/jul/30/nation/chi-jetpackjul30

 

The new gadget has been improved, and it is likely that it will become available commercially some time in the next few years. Unlike the James Bond style rocket pack, the jet pack will have substantial range, allowing it to take its pilot useful distances.

 

A video showing it at an air show is available at :

 

Looks unimpressive, but the reason it did not go above a metre off the ground was that the operators were denied permission to do so. It actually has the capability to fly to any height that a small airplane can reach.

[Petanquell]

Much better jetpack have Yves Rossy

here.. That's impressive...

 

Does someone here fly with hang*glider? It must be possible to fly with something like it even if it will be grafted on your back...

[SkepticLance]

To Pet

 

As I understand it, the Rossi jet pack required he be launched from an airoplane at altitude. The one I mentioned takes off and lands vertically, and can hover.

 

And yes, I have used a hang glider. Probably not practical as a biological, permanently grafted system, since the wings are so big. But as a hobby, hanging beneath the wing, and gliding, almost as much fun as sex!

[Demosthenes]

yes, but every one is basing there opinions on if we use birds as a template for the wings.

because were human we would require everything to be different so we would have to be completely original in our thought process and actual application to the human body.

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http://www.alleba.com/blog/2008/05/17/the-future-of-flight/

these wings are back mounted he still has his arms and he flew for ten minutes, how that for unable to be backmounted?????

[iNow]

Ahh... I hadn't considered jet powered human flight. Who needs flapping when you have jets?

[Demosthenes]

i would still like the feeling of flapping wings even if i couldn't fly but even that is still a tad difficult

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shit im thirteen and im thinking of me being a genetic scientist jus to develop wings for about 10-20 yrs time... what a sad life

[iNow]

Buck up, kid. There's nothing sad about living life and reaching for your dreams.

[Demosthenes]

it just sounds sad.... but there is a lot of work to be achieved and ive started now, many people will laugh and many people will critisys but thats what has to be done to improve and then reach that goal in 15 yrs time.

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thats what i hate, you tell someone youre a minor or an adolescent and they treat you differently from before as seen in the two posts by iNow he\she was speaking to an adult in one and a kid in the other and when that happens the whole object of the conversation goes away, and his opinions with it...

[Phi for All]

thats what i hate, you tell someone youre a minor or an adolescent and they treat you differently from before as seen in the two posts by iNow he\she was speaking to an adult in one and a kid in the other and when that happens the whole object of the conversation goes away, and his opinions with it...

Someone once told me he was afraid that if people knew his age they wouldn't take him seriously here anymore. I told him that in science, as nowhere else, it's your accomplishments that people pay attention to.

 

He was fifteen at the time, and had joined SFN at your age, made his mistakes, learned quicker than anyone else I've ever seen, was eventually made a moderator and then managed to convince the site owner that he had what it takes to be one of four full administrators. He's now seventeen but who cares? You get treated the way you expect to be treated here, so expect better from people.

 

Btw, swearing in print doesn't make you sound older, just coarser.

[iNow]

thats what i hate, you tell someone youre a minor or an adolescent and they treat you differently from before as seen in the two posts by iNow he\she was speaking to an adult in one and a kid in the other and when that happens the whole object of the conversation goes away, and his opinions with it...

 

Wow... You chose to ignore the larger (completely positive and reassuring) sentiment of my post and instead focus on a single word. I give up. There's just no winning sometimes.

[Demosthenes]

i just have a problem wit swearing im tryin to work it out, i expect full well what i get, because im used to it, but i can't change the world when im thirteen so ill just live with it, i read your comment but ive heard it many times before and those people are all subject to opinion like everyone else, and like everyone else theyre opinions changed like the weather i try not to be so pedantic it just happens, i have hopes like you, like iNow (may it be one person or an orginisation i wonder), but because this is online it does help with the age thing, for if you were talking to me in person you too would have changed opinions, it isn't voluntary it just is part of the way humans have come to think of "youngsters" and i understand that fully..............i just don't like it.

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Wow... You chose to ignore the larger (completely positive and reassuring) sentiment of my post and instead focus on a single word. I give up. There's just no winning sometimes.

 

no i took it all in, and i thank you for that but it wasn't the word "kid that got to me, it was the change in attitude, if i offended you im sorry, but im pretty annoyed at the world for some reason today, nothing personal

[Phi for All]

i just have a problem wit swearing im tryin to work it out,

Expletives while speaking are different from the written word. You have the chance to formulate your posts the way *you* want them to sound, complete with punctuation to help the reader understand what *you* are trying to say. Use what you've got and refine it.

 

i expect full well what i get, because im used to it, but i can't change the world when im thirteen so ill just live with it, i read your comment but ive heard it many times before and those people are all subject to opinion like everyone else, and like everyone else theyre opinions changed like the weather i try not to be so pedantic it just happens, i have hopes like you, like iNow (may it be one person or an orginisation i wonder),

Try not mentioning your age so much if you think it shouldn't matter. Try not to be so negative. Try not having "people hate me" in the signature that adorns each of your posts. If what you're doing isn't working, try something else.

 

but because this is online it does help with the age thing, for if you were talking to me in person you too would have changed opinions, it isn't voluntary it just is part of the way humans have come to think of "youngsters" and i understand that fully..............i just don't like it.

You assume too much, and put too big a burden on yourself. As one of my favorite Athenians once said, "Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes that he also believes to be true."

 

Let's get back on topic. Use this small opportunity to begin a great enterprise.

[Demosthenes]

thank you, i really don't mean some of the things i say, some are insulting, but ive learnt from this mistake, i apoligize for any harsh comments if i said any, and i thank you for not getting annoyed or mentally angry at me, i will change

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anyway back on subject. if we could reduce weight enough to allow even gliding flight, (25-30kg) we would require a 2 m2 wingspan so 1 m on each side, but how would you even create a wing that size, maybe through tricking the body into thinking it is missing a wing-shaped limb so it would grow them or would they have to be a synthetic material capable of movement? also the topic was changed to could working wings be grafted, eg that means non-working wings are possible, does it not??

[lifestream]

Well most likely human cant be adopted for flying. All those changes turns you into a bird and you are not a human anymore.

 

But our best change is bioengineering. Direct neural interface bio-exoskeleton that works like a extended body, capable to function on its own ( heart, lungs etc) also providing protection - flying high in thin air etc. It "attaches" itself to you providing air supply and all necessary for you to function but when "joined" you feel as one.

 

 

Oh and whats best about it: you can have perhaps a built in neural interface internet connection in it

[Demosthenes]

so are you saying the exo-body is capable of living by itself??? just without a brain. if so couldn't you just incorporate that into the human itself??

[npts2020]

so are you saying the exo-body is capable of living by itself??? just without a brain. if so couldn't you just incorporate that into the human itself??

 

Try googling "The Guyver", you might be interested in the concept of body armor presented. The movies (animated and live action) I found pretty entertaining as well.

[lifestream]

for living exo skeleton you have a change to actually choose. you can return to normal human or "change" into a bird like thing.

+ you dont need any radical changes to human itself.

[npts2020]

for living exo skeleton you have a change to actually choose. you can return to normal human or "change" into a bird like thing.

+ you dont need any radical changes to human itself.

 

That is exactly what i told you to google describes, even better, they have a whole movie(s) showing how it works. The same sort of concept could be applicable to the wings being speculated on by the OP. The giant caveat is that it may not be possible at all and certainly isn't possible with the current science and technology available. IMO that is what good science fiction does, make the seemingly impossible, plausible.

[lifestream]

True current science is not at that lvl (at least as much as we know - you never know top secret project that are always ahead of time).

 

But it certainly is not impossible, it does not go against any rules and it is possible with more sophisticated technology (which takes time or is done secretly).

 

Most likely exoskeletons like that come first, before we are capable to modify human dna when their already grown up.

[Chris_25]

You'd probably have the best luck just attaching [ie soldering ] an engine and a pair of wings onto a person. Long before you could devolop the immense mucle tissue needed along with different brain capacities, lung + heart capacities, nerve links etc. etc.

[visceral]

Couldn't the wings be inorganic rather than biological? Like a carbon fiber device or something?

[Mokele]

Couldn't the wings be inorganic rather than biological? Like a carbon fiber device or something?

 

Yes, but by that standard, hang-gliding already counts.