G. Bush

[Norman Albers]

We should honor President G. Bush for calling the American auto makers "failed companies". This is one of the only intelligent things I've ever heard the man say.

[Pangloss]

Fair enough.

[ironizer]

Ford is the father of automobiles. Along with Mercedes.

[Norman Albers]

And they have not sought such loans. HONOR where due.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Norman Albers

[Phi for All]

We should honor President G. Bush for calling the American auto makers "failed companies". This is one of the only intelligent things I've ever heard the man say.

I'll second that honor. Credit where it's due. I can't even imagine what he must feel like now.

 

I think he also deserves a pat on the back for not having Stephen Colbert taken care of after his unbelievably deft roast at the

a few years back. Hell, G. Bush should get a medal for staying seated through those excruciating 10 minutes.

[npts2020]

So failed we are only going to give them $17.4 billion. I hope if my company ever fails I can get a few billion $$$$ from Uncle Sam too.

[Norman Albers]

A toast! To toast.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Norman Albers

[iNow]

Since when did our government become so broken that our executive could do something which itself was explicity rejected by congress? Almost $18b. Do founding principles mean absolutely nothing?

 

 

Norm - Still mad that we allowed our athletes to attend the summer Olympics in Beijing?

[Mokele]

And they have not sought such loans. HONOR where due.

 

It's worth noting that Mercedes not only doesn't need a bailout, but after buying Chrysler, they apparently recognized Chrysler for the failure it was and dumped it about 18 months ago.

 

Mokele

[Norman Albers]

Hummers as collector items. HONEY, CAN WE CLEAR SOME SPACE IN THE GARAGE?

Edited December 20, 2008 by Norman Albers

[Pangloss]

Since when did our government become so broken that our executive could do something which itself was explicity rejected by congress? Almost $18b. Do founding principles mean absolutely nothing?

 

Good lord, iNow is siding with Congressional Republicans!

 

 

Next up: Flying pigs!

[bascule]

Yeah I suppose I'm also "siding with the Congressional Republicans." I don't like UAW. I don't oppose labor unions in general, but I certainly disapprove of unions who act like Luddites, worried technology is replacing their jobs and standing in the way of automation and technological progress to keep them. It's a very backwards attitude.

 

But it's not like I think the automakers should be denied the bailout on account of UAW. I'm just unclear on why they can't declare Chapter 11 and clean up their act without money from Uncle Sam. If their situation is really that bad they deserve to fail.

[Pangloss]

I'm finding it pretty hard to support more bailouts myself, but it does seem to be the way we're heading. I wonder if this could be a problem for Obama down the road a bit; something that will bleed his popularity and push the emphasis back towards partisanship. Dare I call it... his Iraq?

 

I may be alone on this but I'm supporting this bailout, mainly because of the specific terms and the political realities involved. Politics is funny in that doing the right thing doesn't always equate to effective problem-solving. Sometimes there are no good answers, but temporary measures can be taken and the short-term benefits can be useful. Such is the case here, I predict.

 

This failed because unions threw their weight at Congressional Democrats. They have no such pull in the White House, either now OR in the next administration. Which means that they may have no choice but to drop down to the level of the Honda/Toyota/BMW workers -- refusing to do so will have the same result AND they lose their grip. Making concessions means they keep their power.

 

But I think there is also a possibility that it COULD work. I think the loan situation is frequently overlooked here. Dealers are saying that as many as 25% of their customers that are ready to sign on the dotted line are unable to do so because of loan denials, when their credit scores suggest that they would have gotten a loan under the typical conditions of just a few months ago. If that's the case then this week's changes at the Fed, which are already spiking a huge surge in real estate interest, could also spark the auto industry.

 

Combine that with massive union concessions and you have something that could actually work. Maybe even in only 90 days. Cross your fingers.

[iNow]

People can't get credit and so aren't buying cars. We've just spent almost eighteen billion dollars to watch them fail in another few months. I'll be wrong if special provisions were put in place to ensure retooling and entry into new business sectors, but I remain pessimistic as of this post.

 

Also, what of all of the small business owners? They account for something like 70% of the workforce in our country, and they're failing left and right, yet they're not getting bailouts. Anyone who tries to tell you this wasn't influenced by the lobbies and congress critters in the pocket of special interests is a frakking liar.

[npts2020]

The auto manufacturers would be ok if the economy made a u-turn fairly soon and oil stayed cheap. What are the chances of both those things happening? IMO about the same as the flying spaghetti monster showing up and taking over the world. Firstly, I see no reason why an economy, leveraged to the point ours is, will suddenly turn around when the underlying reasons for the problem have not been addressed. Secondly, if it does turn around, the price of energy (especially oil) will go right back up to where it was a couple of months ago and beyond.

[ParanoiA]

How about honoring Mr Bush on his humanitarian work in Africa? He apparently received an award for it.

 

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2008-11/2008-11-13-voa5.cfm?CFID=82497641&CFTOKEN=72734182

[Norman Albers]

For certainly a half-year I've been hearing ads for the Chevy Volt?????? Seems like nuclear fusion... coming soon to a tokomak near you.

[iNow]

How about honoring Mr Bush on his humanitarian work in Africa? He apparently received an award for it.

 

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2008-11/2008-11-13-voa5.cfm?CFID=82497641&CFTOKEN=72734182

 

Indeed. I was thankful the man did something to earn my respect before leaving office, and absolutely will honor those efforts in Africa. My problem is hardly with honoring Bush and entirely with honoring him for the wrong reasons.

[Pangloss]

Only Nixon could go to China.

[Norman Albers]

That is what persuaded me about Obama's maturiy. In answer to McCain saying "no" to discussions with blacklisted countries, Obama listed four major episodes of Republicans doing so with strong results. Yesterday I had a consultation with a lawyer for help resolving a land partnership dissolution. He told me a good story of a previous case where the judge acted between the two parties in a most unusual way, going actually back and forth acting as an auctioneer. This was supposed to be the function of a mediator elsewhere. It worked and they nailed an agreement <!!!>

 

Y'all can add whatever you want to. I really care nothing for G. Bush. I care for the present and future of American autocar manufacture.