Report: U.S. losing ground in science education

[badchad]

I agree with admiral though, most people get into science for the sake of doing science, myself included. My only point is that maybe the government should throw a little bit more money towards research. It would stimulate interest and get people interested in pursuing careers there. To tell someone that they will have to complete 4 years of undergraduate study, then another 5 getting a Ph.D. After all this you'll start at 30K being a post-doc for the next 3-4 years. 30K for having a Ph.D. I thought I read somewhere the average salary in the U.S. is about 36K. Even after a post-doc, an assistant professor will start around 40-50K. This is after 13+ years of post high school education/work experience.

 

Opportunities for science in industry are far more lucrative. Thus, even the small amount of people trained as scientists will tend to move into science which is driven by a companies desire for profits, not necessarily the advancement of society. The field of science is an example where government support would go a long way. SImply my opinion though.

[Firedragon52]

"Only" 6 figures?

 

ahaahahahahahahahahaahaha!

Exactly...I'll take that, thank you very much.

[Firedragon52]

I agree with admiral though, most people get into science for the sake of doing science, myself included. My only point is that maybe the government should throw a little bit more money towards research. It would stimulate interest and get people interested in pursuing careers there. To tell someone that they will have to complete 4 years of undergraduate study, then another 5 getting a Ph.D. After all this you'll start at 30K being a post-doc for the next 3-4 years. 30K for having a Ph.D. I thought I read somewhere the average salary in the U.S. is about 36K. Even after a post-doc, an assistant professor will start around 40-50K. This is after 13+ years of post high school education/work experience.

Still how does this compare to other majors? If you geniunely enjoy what you are doing, I believe you really won't mind the work (and the "low" pay). Why do something that you don't like?

[badchad]

Well, if you had read my second post you would see the response to my comment about the "only 6 figures" statement. While this is certainly an adequate amount of money a person usually only receives this at the end of a fairly successful science career. An average person receives a Ph.D in about 5 years, followed by another 3-4 years of a post doc. This is about 9 years of post-graduate work making less then 30K. Then you'll hit assistant professor and start around 40-50 and stay there for around 4-5 years. Then you'll hit associate professor where you'll start to make decent money at about 60-70. So I'm sure you can do the math. It'll be around 13-14 years AFTER your b.s. at which point you'll prob. be making around 60-70K. A professor can finish his/her career at associate or assistant professor and never make more money than this. Add on about 8 years IF you make full professor and get tenure, at which point you'll only be thinking about breaking 6 figures (80-90K).

 

Decide the Ph.D route isn't for you? a master's or B.S. will top out around 50-60 max. Of course there are exceptions, but this is my opinion on what is considered an "average" science career.

 

Compare this to a someone who is an engineer who starts around 60-70K directly out of college. You'll see it's not about the money. You are correct in the fact that many scientists do what they do for the love of it. Regardless of the money, become a graduate student and see if you complain. Grad students are worked to the bone, and taken for granted by professors. You have to be "above avergage" to be accepted to a doctoral program. You're reward for doing well and being top of the class as an undergraduate? working 60+ hours a week for around 19K for 5 years or so. This works out to around $6.08 per hour. I believe McDonald's pays more then that. There are few people who don't mind the work and low pay, survey your school's grad students and see what they think.

 

All the while everyone will say "you should do it for the love". But the title of the thread was why the U.S. was losing ground in science education. The answer is that few have the drive or willingness to work under these conditions.

[Dapthar]

You're reward for doing well and being top of the class as an undergraduate? working 60+ hours a week for around 19K for 5 years or so. This works out to around $6.08 per hour.

True, however, you neglect to mention that one's tuition is usually paid in full for working as a TA or RA, and I doubt that this was included in the $19,000 yearly stipend you quoted.

But the title of the thread was why the U.S. was losing ground in science education. The answer is that few have the drive or willingness to work under these conditions.

You stated that studying engineering will allow one to make around $60,000 upon graduation, and that is correct. However, when people decide to pursue a major that is not under the umbrella of Science, they generally do not go into higher paying majors such as Medicine or Business, but study something in the Arts, such as English, Political Science, etc. all of which pay less that any chosen engineering field (Electrical, Chemical, Mechanical, Biomedical, etc.).

 

The bottom line is that people are shortsighted, and they forgo the immediate difficulties posed by Science majors for the later financial difficulties brought about by a poor (In the financial sense.) choice of major.