Paying with PENNIES!!!!!!!

[Reaper]

Here's a video of people paying with pennies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsz__5aium0

 

Enjoy

[Pangloss]

It's funny how many people think that "legal tender" means that the merchant is forced to accept it.

[Reaper]

Private interests/transactions can choose to not accept that kind of payment (e.g. key store, carriage ride, restaurants, etc.), depending on the circumstances.

 

Otherwise, for them to refuse the payment is a federal crime on their part (especially for banks or in public transactions of ANY kind)....

[Pangloss]

According to a law professor I had in college, the ONLY exceptions are the discrimination groups (age, gender, religion, etc -- I think there are seven?).

 

It's true that it's illegal to refuse a legal form of payment for a service rendered, but what people typically miss here is that they have the right to refuse to perform the service (unless they're a member of a protected discrimination group). In other words, the merchant says "sorry, I won't serve you", and thus no contract is formed and no legal obligation to accept payment is created.

 

In short, the merchant doesn't have to serve anybody he or she doesn't want to, unless they're a member of the protected discrimination group.

 

This is why the issue of pharmacists servicing customers with contraceptives and abortion drugs is an actual legal conundrum. It's easy to see why that might be a form of discrimination; much harder to see how the merchant might have a legitimate point of view on this, if you don't realize that merchants can refuse service to people in general. In this case the issue is impacted by other variables, however, such as medical obligations and availability of care options in rural areas, etc -- such may trump the merchant's right of refusal (and be, perhaps, an exception that's not technically part of the discrimination groups).

[Shadow]

The video is...educational ) I remember a couple of people from the school I used to go to doing the same thing to their much-despised teacher.

 

I wonder how it turned out, if they actually accepted the payment in pennies or not.

 

Cheers,

 

Gabe

[the tree]

I can't decide if this thread would have been better or worse had it been titled how I originally read it "Paying with PENISES!!!!". I'm gonna say almost certainly worse.

[insane_alien]

isn't there a legal limit to the amount you can pay with pennies alone?

 

for instance, here in the UK 1p and 2p coins can only be used to purchase something up to a value of 20p

 

5 and 10p coins for values up to £5 20p and 50p up to £10(and 25p coins but those are commemorative and hence extremely unlikely to be used as tender but legal none the less)

 

£1, £2 and £5 coins are unlimited

 

is there not a similar thing in the states?

[Phi for All]

The owner of the restaurant wasn't thinking. He should have said, "No problem, I'll take this in payment if it's the proper amount. You can either count it yourself to my satisfaction, which would mean it needs to be wrapped in 50 cent wrappers, or you can wait until I have a staff person who's free to do it, which should be around midnight. If you choose to walk out before it's counted, I'll have to call the police."

 

The patron might argue that it's the merchant's responsibility to verify the sum, but the merchant isn't obligated to drop everything and count the pennies right then. Slow service doesn't give one the right to walk out on a bill, does it? Only the right to not patronize the establishment the next time.

[iNow]

Phi - That sir, is rather brilliant.

[Reaper]

isn't there a legal limit to the amount you can pay with pennies alone?

 

................................

 

is there not a similar thing in the states?

 

Nope! According to the Coinage Act of 1965, all coins and currency of the U.S. are regarded as legal tender. They cannot be refused in settlements of debts or public transactions. And certainly not by banks.

 

For example, say you owe some credit card company some 1000 dollars or so. If you decide to pay all that in pennies, they cannot refuse it (or at the very least they cannot successfully sue you for that); pennies are legal tender, and if they don't accept that payment then they are committing a federal crime.

 

Shopkeepers/retailers and public transport can refuse to accept that kind of payment, out of practical reasons of course. Vending machines can refuse large payments like that too. But of course the difference here is that you are not in any debt when you decide to buy something from the store; they can choose to refuse payment of pennies for the same reasons they may choose to refuse payment in credit.

 

I don't know how it works in other countries though, but that's the law here in the U.S.

 

And that's why the video is so funny to begin with, because in principle they can't refuse the payment, no matter how absurd or annoying it is . I personally have paid my parking tickets entirely in pennies before, and they are obliged to take it no matter their objections.

 

It's true that it's illegal to refuse a legal form of payment for a service rendered, but what people typically miss here is that they have the right to refuse to perform the service (unless they're a member of a protected discrimination group). In other words, the merchant says "sorry, I won't serve you", and thus no contract is formed and no legal obligation to accept payment is created.

 

That is entirely true, but not really the point. Read what I wrote above for how it is actually enforced.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Reaper
multiple post merged

[iNow]

It also warrants mention that, in the video shared in the OP, services had already been rendered, so the option to refuse service was no longer available to the restaurant.

[Phi for All]

And that's why the video is so funny to begin with, because in principle they can't refuse the payment, no matter how absurd or annoying it is . I personally have paid my parking tickets entirely in pennies before, and they are obliged to take it no matter their objections.

I don't find this instance funny at all. I saw no implication that the establishment deserved such behavior.

 

I could see it if the restaurant or the waitperson had done something, maybe in the past, to deserve this kind of retribution. But do you realize what it would cost a waiter in time and tips to count all those pennies out after he had given decent service with a decent meal?

 

And with the parking ticket example, again I don't find it funny unless there is a good reason for it. If the meter police had barely started to write me up yet insisted on finishing even though I showed up to move my car or feed the meter I could see paying in pennies. Otherwise I'm just foisting my problems off on the clerk who had zero to do with my receiving a ticket.

[ydoaPs]

I'm pretty sure that you can refuse certain tender. I know in VA there are places that won't accept bills larger than $10.

[Phi for All]

I'm pretty sure that you can refuse certain tender. I know in VA there are places that won't accept bills larger than $10.

And I think if you post that policy (I've seen it quite a bit) you are well within your rights. I actually thought of that for the restaurant owner. He should have dashed back to his office and printed a little notice about not accepting pennies and posted it near his cash register, rather than cause such a stir in front of the other patrons.

[Shadow]

I can't decide if this thread would have been better or worse had it been titled how I originally read it "Paying with PENISES!!!!". I'm gonna say almost certainly worse.

 

I read it in much the same way, except as an added bonus I though it was "playing" instead of "paying". I even said so in my original post, but then decided to edit it out for the sake of propriety )

[DJBruce]

I work at a pizzeria and one day I was working and I set a persons order next to the register and the dropped a handful of assorted change, grabbed the pizza and left before I could do anything. I was slightly irritated at the time but after I finished counting it I found out he left roughly a $4.00 tip on a $12.00 order, so that made it okay. But, I would probably react like the waiter if someone tried to pay for that large of an order in pennies.

[nitric]

this is not as related but once on the news it said that a man had purchase a new truck using nothing but pocket change he collected over around 10 years. He was not turned down also.

[Reaper]

At least pennies are real money, take a look at this video when some guy tried to pay with things with Super Mario coins:

[Mr Skeptic]

In short, the merchant doesn't have to serve anybody he or she doesn't want to, unless they're a member of the protected discrimination group.

 

I'm pretty sure that the merchant can refuse to serve someone in a protected discrimination group. However, they don't have the right to refuse them service because they are in a protected discrimination group. He'd have to have some other reason, and apply that other reason as well to people not in the protected discrimination group.