Particle-Particle Simulation: Magnetic/Electric Fields & N-body Orbitals

[PlayStationX]

it is interesting i could not find many particle-particle simulators that simulate electrical fields even thought dynamics is pretty similar to that of planetary orbitals. there are few i could find but they are mostly 2D and defining problem in mathematical/geometrical terms, with sin/cos or some harmonic oscillator functions.

 

none, however, i could find that simulate CLASSICAL ELECTRODYNAMICS (Stochastic El.Dynm. - SED) in 3D n-body system and even less to include MAGNETIC FIELDS, which are the effect of moving electric fields, says Lorentz and friends...

 

 

this is kind of situation and type of particles i want to simulate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field

 

what is the force behind covalent bond? what came first, chicken or egg?

 

Merovingian:

- You see, there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth - Causality. Action, reaction.

- Cause and effect.

 

 

how wonderful,

the mystery and essence of Life, Universe and Everything lies in contradiction - the cause that is an effect of itself. ah, beautiful self-emerging craziness... im talking about field forces here, magnetic and electric.

 

 

...are magnetic dipoles the essence of Life, Universe and Everything? these dipoles would then need to be infinitely divisible while retaining its original properties, including the Yin-Yang duality, which is also kind of holographic quality, fractalous smell it has.... but, what the hell does it all mean?

 

ehmm, would you not think infinity goes both ways? infinite microcosmos, as well as macrocosmos... did you really think humans are on some "bottom" of grand scale of dimensions? hahaha... it's funny because its true, but not in the spatial sense, size does not matter scale-wise.

 

 

well, if there is any meaning in this blabbering, then let it be that universe is ANALOG, rather then digital... so, these particle accelerators and search for the smallest indivisible "atom" from which everything is composed will always be futile and more and more expensive, until it causes black hole and doom us all. science is great!

 

 

...its like smashing a clock off the wall in a hope to figure out how it works,

by looking at all the broken pieces flying around.

 

 

 

 

Equations: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/PHYS1169/beilby/magnetism.html

You may have mused in the past, why one of my ....., or my girlfriend's .... is smaller than the other? well, look at that photo above, CHIRALITY is built-in. this universe is rather quier, it pulls on one side more than on the other. breaking of the symmetry...

 

 

 

 

- CHARGES & MAGNETO-ELECTRIC FIELD FORCES -

 

Magnetic Fields - test1

 

Electric and Magnetic Fields: Positron & Electron do the helix dance

 

DIPOLE MAGNETIC FIELDS due to moving electric charges (not spin yet)... HydrogZen-2

 

HydrogZen-1, Spontaneous formation of NEUTRAL Quazi-Hydrogen atoms

 

 

 

- MASS & GRAVITY FIELD FORCE -

 

Chaos in a Box: Inverse Square and Fractal kind of Randomness

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4342269507182595610

 

 

 

 

little twitching worms,

all right, lets see how does it compare...

http://www.bo.infn.it/antares/bolle_proc/foto.html

 

 

 

in essence,

i hope to be able to manage and somehow force these virtual atoms to aggregate with the use of "covalent bonds" by simulating it all with classical mechanics rather than quantum, which is contradictory to the "analog universe" somewhat....

 

 

anyway, any idea? any similar software out there?

Edited January 11, 2009 by PlayStationX
a

[Klaynos]

So you want a program to model an ensemble of atoms?

 

I'm only familiar with codes that do this for solids, and they are all quantum mechanical in nature.

 

Many body problems are annoying (to say the least).

 

I'm a bit tired right now but something springs to mind is, atoms are not charged, so that drops out the E field effects, and B fields well it'd depend greatly on the material, I suspect by the point you get gassous ferrormagnets their effects would be lost in the noise from temperature....

[PlayStationX]

So you want a program to model an ensemble of atoms?

 

I'm only familiar with codes that do this for solids, and they are all quantum mechanical in nature.

 

yes.

 

ok, let me be really specific now since my message may appear confusing to others.

 

 

1.) i want to know if there is any software (QM or whatever) that can 3D simulate in real-time two neutral hydrogen atoms approach each other and form covalent bond. i want to see simulation of it, interaction based on some equations, as opposed to animation. basically, i want to see how "orbital clouds" change from one shape to another as covalent bond is formed.

 

 

2.) i want to try and do the same with classical mechanics, by simulating 4 particles - 2 electrons and 2 protons. when i start this simulation i want to see 2 neutral hydrogen atoms form like in that YouTube video. then, i want to see them approach each other and then form "covalent bond".

 

 

now, before being told that it is impossible to use classical physics for electron atomic orbit, let me share this theory of mine. better yet, let me do this dude talk since he seem to have thought about it much more than myself:

 

"proposed theory"

 

According to new interpretation, every atom of hydrogen possesses an electron magnetic moment due to the electron movement. The magnetic moment of nucleus is lower so it is not important in this case. The electron magnetic moment is formed by combination of orbital and spin magnetic moment using known rules of vectors. The covalent bond means that both atoms attract reciprocally due to the magnetic interaction between their magnetic moments.

 

...As comparison, quantum mechanic is incapable to explain why two opposite spin are lowering the energy of system.

 

http://www.elkadot.com/atomic/Covalent_Bond.htm

 

 

i simply can not believe that this was not considered in mainstream physics?!

 

...or was it? in chemistry and nuclear physics no one seems to take magnetic fields into account in regards to covalent bonding? everyone only talks about charges aka. electric fields, and on top of that classical mechanics actually predicts two spinning electrons will attract each other, given that enough magnetic moment is created to overcome electric repulsion.

 

 

so, to answer my question about covalent bonds - the force behind covalent bond is MAGNETIC FIELD FORCE, which i hope to prove by simulating it as described above, only 4 charged particle but taking into account BOTH, electric as well as MAGNETIC fields.

 

anyhow,

i have done everything but SPIN, which you can see on those videos. there is still no bonding taking place which tells me this "spin factor" is very important indeed...

 

 

 

all that lead us to the heart of my current problem:

 

- imagine hundreds of bar magnets fall randomly on a floor. eventually they will orient in such way as to make complete system take on the "lowest energy" state. eg. if you put only two bar magnets next to each other they will rotate so that north pole of one is next to the south pole of another.

 

how to go about simulating this?

Edited January 11, 2009 by PlayStationX

[swansont]

all that lead us to the heart of my current problem:

 

- imagine hundreds of bar magnets fall randomly on a floor. eventually they will orient in such way as to make complete system take on the "lowest energy" state. eg. if you put only two bar magnets next to each other they will rotate so that north pole of one is next to the south pole of another.

 

how to go about simulating this?

 

Sounds like the Ising model

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ising_model

[PlayStationX]

Sounds like the Ising model

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ising_model

 

hey, thanks a lot! that does indeed sound like it.

 

 

now, i have to admit i have no idea how to apply it. let me rephrase the problem slightly so that hopefully we can derive some formula that can be plugged in computer....

 

lets image only 3 bar magnets sitting on a table randomly spaced. they can not move, but can only rotate around its center, it is 2D situation. there is no friction of any kind, no gravity and the only forces are magnetic forces. here is a picture where "x" is the point of rotation and coordinate center of each magnet, we have "top" magnet, "middle" magnet and "bottom", like this:

 

[s- x -N]                                topMag: a=90, x=7, y=25

                 [N- x -S]              midMag: a=270, x=18, y=19


     [s- x -N]                          botMag: a=90, x=12, y=4

 

- input are 3 initial angles and 3 pairs of (x,y) coordinates

- output are the new angles after system stabilize

 

 

1.) any idea how to derive equations to fit this case?

 

2.) for every initial position is there only one solution, even in 3D and with more magnets?

 

3.) gravity and magneto-electric fields act instantaneously on distance, right? so, is there any way to find out how quick reaction will be - how strong is rotational acceleration each instant for each magnet and how does it depend on distance?

 

4.) imagine now these magnets float in 3D space freely, and lets consider the middle magnet. it has a "choice" to be repelled to the right or to rotate its south pole to the left. will it rotate or will it translate? in other words, how to split acceleration to translation and rotation, what will it depend on if there is no friction and magnets are point particles with magnetic dipole moment?

 

 

cheers

Edited January 11, 2009 by PlayStationX

[Leumas13]

Can you simulate this accurately using classical physics as in the most recent post? It sounds to me like a many-body problem, so using classical laws wouldn't simulate well