gre Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Is it possible to calculate the magnitude of the strong force in newtons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Do you mean the force between nucleons or between quarks? The force between nucleons is in the low momentum part of and is generally not very well understood. Methods from exact renormalisation group flow, lattice field theory and effective field theory can be applied. This is a subject that is currently under much investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gre Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Between quarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 It depends on the energy/momentum scale, the coupling decreases as the energy increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gre Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) How about a ground state hydrogen atom's quarks Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedI'm just thinking there should be a way to calculate the strong force between quarks (in proton) with it's relativistic energy. Wouldn't a quark's bond strength be equal to its hadrons mass-energy? Edited January 12, 2009 by gre Consecutive post/s merged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I don't know. At low energies/momentum QCD is strongly coupled and so perturbative methods fail, including the idea that a proton is simply made of quarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gre Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) Why couldn't something like this work: F(binding_proton) = (p * E)/hbar E=(protonmass*cc^2) p=(protonmass*cc) Using this equation, the total binding energy between all quarks (in a proton), would be: F(binding_proton) = 714795.07 N Then you could get the proton mass-energy by multiplying: F(binding_electron) * 1.3214095e-15 m / (2*pi) = 1.503e-10 J (or torque) I did the same for the electron, and got F(binding_electron) = .212013 N .. multiply by the Compton wavelength of the electron, you get .511 MeV. I thought this was a strange coincidence: F(binding_electron) * (alpha^4/4) meters = 1.503e-10 J Edited January 13, 2009 by gre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If you consider the bag model of a proton, it takes something like 1 GeV per fermi to "pull out" a quark. (I think this is phenomenologically determined) I think that is about [math]1.6 \times 10^{5}[/math] Newtons. Please check that I have converted that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gre Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) Can you give me an example? Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedF = (p * E)/hbar F = (protonmass^2 * c^3)/hbar = 714795.07 Newtons This looks a lot like a Planck constant. Can Planck constants represent a maximum as well? Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedI was just informed the strong force between quarks (in newtons) is to the order 100,000 newtons. Which agrees with my calculation. Any comments? Edited January 14, 2009 by gre Consecutive post/s merged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Great, that agrees with what I also have been told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Astronaut Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Magnitude of the other forces. Electromagnetic Force: 1,000 newtons Weak Force: .01 newtons Gravitational Force: [math].10^{-33}[/math] newtons Those are my guesses on each force's approximate strength within a distance of 1 femtometer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gre Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 I just read you can also multiply the energy density by the area to get a rough estimate. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedajb, did you come up with an exact number for the strong force (newtons) within a proton? Thanks. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 No, I did not come up with it, it has been taken from a reference. I believe it comes from a bag or potential model that is then fixed phenomenologically. I don't know if you can easily get such a figure directly from QCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gre Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Here is another way to write it. I doubt this is valid either. F = (m * (c^2 / r)) (centripetal force) or F = E/r E = relativistic energy r = Compton wavelength / (2*pi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschaeffer Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Magnitude of the other forces. Electromagnetic Force: 1,000 newtons Weak Force: .01 newtons Gravitational Force: [math].10^{-33}[/math] newtons Those are my guesses on each force's approximate strength within a distance of 1 femtometer. Perhaps not everything is electromagnetic but, at least the strong force is as shown here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Perhaps not everything is electromagnetic but, at least the strong force is as shown here ! Moderator Note Interesting definition of "shown;" we're going for explanations that are more widely accepted and supported Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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