Abortion and Capital Punishment.

[blike]

Am I the only one who sees a dichotomy in believing abortion should be legalized (specifically second and third trimester), and capital punishment should be banned?

[Lance]

I don’t know if this thread was meant to be a debate but, what are your reasons for believing capital punishment should be banned?

[blike]

Not necessarily a debate, just a discussion

 

I don't believe capital punishment should be banned. I was curious as to how people can justify holding both beliefs.

[Lance]

Ah I misread the question. I was about to say there was a contradiction there. Yes a suppose that would mean I agree with you.

 

I still wouldn’t mind knowing why somebody would want capital punishment banned.

[Phi for All]

I see no dichotomy because both issues are extremely complicated and need to be viewed in context to the situation.

 

Second and third trimester abortions are often grave matters of health. It is often not a matter of choice.

 

And fixing the things that lead to crime can make capital punishment less necessary. There is also the matter of politics to consider. Do you sincerely believe, out of the 38 states in 2002 that had capital statutes, that Texas criminals were twice as bad as ALL THE OTHER STATES'? That year 71 criminals were executed in 13 out of those 38 states. 33 were executed in Texas.

[blike]

And fixing the things that lead to crime can make capital punishment less necessary.

Indeed. That doesn't eliminate the need for it though.

 

No, I don't believe texas criminals were twice as bad. They're just more likely to hand out the death penalty. You're right about second and third trimester, but there are still people who support "Woman's choice" at any time during her pregnancy.

 

In any case, I don't understand why it's a woman's choice to murder an innocent unborn child, but the government has no right to execute murderers. Sure, one can make the argument that innocent men are being put to death in our system. However that's not an argument against the death penalty, rather it's against an unjust system. There are instances in which people have been convicted without a shadow of a doubt, or when someone has confessed.

 

Hope I didn't just strawman there, but that's the argument I commonly hear. I'm not necessarily attributing it to you or anyone else on the forum.

[Phi for All]

I see your point, Blike. It is hard for me to get around the idea of abortion not being premeditated murder, but I feel I must because if you view it as murder in the second trimester, then it's murder in the first one. I personally would not choose abortion. But I don't think I have the right to choose for everybody in every situation.

 

Capital punishment is premeditated murder as well, it's simply justified by the state as a deterrent and justice for crimes committed, for which you can't afford decent legal representation. But I feel it is necessary at our present level of society. Keeping someone fed and housed for life at state expense is not an answer. The problem I have with it is that people view it as the ultimate deterrent to violent crime. As long as they do, nothing else will be explored to replace it.

[Sayonara]

Indeed. That doesn't eliminate the need for it though.

Well, maybe not in YOUR crazy country

 

If you want to take a look at a recent example of a country that dropped the death penalty, use Australia: afaik they had capital punishment until the mid-1980s.

 

That might give a new point of view on it all.

[blike]

I don't think I need to see other examples. A man who rapes and kills a mother in front of her young children and then proceeds to murder them has no value left here on this earth, and I have no desire to purchase him cable television and 3 meals a day in prison for the rest of his life with my tax money.

 

It's justice, not a deterrent.

[Sayonara]

The point was that you might find some reasoning behind why the Australians think such a person does not deserve death.

 

I didn't intend to suggest that capital punishment should be banned.

[blike]

my bad.

[YT2095]

I`m against capital punishment, I consider it a waste or resources, why not use these people to perform testing on instead of rabits and monkeys and dogs etc...

surely this testing would give much better results that trying to figure out the Human equiv, many of these tests are unreliable anyway, penecillin will kill a rat, morphine in a horse will send it crazy like it was on crank! and certainly not sedate it.

I say we should test on these criminals and if the "human right" people don`t like it then tuff! they gave up their human rights as soon as they did what the did!

 

this way would at least FORCE them to be of some bennefit to mankind AND save many of these helpless animals

 

as for abortion, well I don`t like the idea of it at all except where it`s life or death situations, but the Stem Cells could be harvested after, and so it`s less of a waste too

[BeckyK]

That's a toughie..

 

I think that capital punishment is wrong... Killing a human being to get back at them is just plain wrong and bad karma. Let them sit in their cell and think about the freedom they are missing for the rest of their lives...

 

Abortions-- I would never have one but I personally can't tell someone that they can't make the choice. It's so complicated and not always fair but I think there are circumstances that we wouldn't understand unless we were in their shoes. Some people do it because they are selfish but other's believe they are making the right choice for whatever reason.

[Skye]

Sayonara, the last person executed here (by hanging) was in 1965.

[Sayonara]

Sayonara, the last person executed here (by hanging) was in 1965.

But was that due to capital punishment being repealed, or because it was an effective deterrent?

 

(i.e., that doesn't necessarily mean that capital punishment was ended in 1965...?)

[YT2095]

slice and dice, MAKE THEM become usefull citizens!

[Skye]

Yeah it was repealed shortly after that case, partly because that case was a farce.

[Sayonara]

I seeeeeee.

 

Someone who lived in Australia until recently gave me that info. I shall hit them with a stick.

[Skye]

Oh wait, no hitting yet, I think they were right. The law wasn't actually abolished until 1985. The actual abolition in various states was over a long time (starting in 1922), and the commonwealth in 1973, but the final state didn't abolish it until 1984.

[J'Dona]

I personally believe that capital punishment should be banned... there may be a good reason for killing a rapist/murderer in terms of ridding the human race of them without wasting resources, but I'd rather not have government approved executions on my tax money, if I paid it yet. I'd rather that person was put into solitary confinement in a padded, dark cell for as long as their miserable life stretched out, slowly going mad (if they weren't already), and I would pay to see that end over execution. It's not murder, though it's possibly worse...

 

I'd also like to add that I'm against abortion as well, except in the cases where it would otherwise kill both the mother and baby. Abortions because the parents can't handle the responsibility are just wrong and selfish; what's better, one happy person and a dead one, or two unhappy people? If a mother can't handle it, give up their child for adoption to someone who can. :/

 

Both my last posts (this and the animal rights one) have been a bit morose, um... I'm going to go do something different now. Like listen to some music. Or watch Invader Zim (on in 30 minutes).

[Sayonara]

Or watch Invader Zim (on in 30 minutes).

Don't forget to ensure that all of humanity has its legs sawn off. And replaced with legs of solid goldddddd.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

The problem with capital punishment is that it is probably better to have then being confined in a cell for 50 years.

And YT, doesn't the US constitution ban cruel and unusual punishment? Don't you think millions of people would revolt if you tried? Seriously, they would hate it. Prisoner's families would sue.

[Lance]

The problem with capital punishment is that it is probably better to have them being confined in a cell for 50 years.

 

How would that change anything? Do you think the person is going to be less likely to commit another offence afterwards?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I mean for life.

If you're dead, you hardly suffer for your crimes. If you are stuck in prison, now that's punishment.

[Lance]

Revenge is not the goal. The goal is to keep it from happening again. Killing them will insure it will not happen again while life imprisonment will not.