Sayonara Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 Terribly disappointed. I guess Daniel was just a continuity error. Daniel was an ad hoc resolution to a continuity error inserted after the writers accidentally messed up their numbering system for the Cylon models. However it is rumoured that he will be involved in the plot of Caprica somehow. Why exactly is Kara Thrace the harbinger of death? Death for the Cylons maybe? What was the Cylon master plan? There wasn't one beyond New Caprica. The Cylon "plan" in the titles was originally there as a hook when they thought they would only get renewed once by the network. Season three painted the plan as an attempt by the Cylons to show the humans how they could co-exist with better management (and we all know how that ended).
bascule Posted March 23, 2009 Posted March 23, 2009 Why exactly is Kara Thrace the harbinger of death? Death for the Cylons maybe? Who knows. The entire series seemed as if it were building towards something with Starbuck. Something more than just putting numbers to the notes of All Along the Watchtower and finding "Earth 2" Like uhh, some still unanswered questions beyond why she's the harbinger of death: 1. Who was the dead Starbuck? 2. Who is the new Starbuck in comparison to the dead one? 3. Where'd she get the Viper that looked as if it "just came off the showroom floor" I was really hoping for a satisfactory resolution to all these questions in the season finale. It wasn't there.
YT2095 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 biggest error I saw was that in the Original BSG, they already made it to earth, Dillon and Troy with their flying motorbikes. and yet they used the original cylons in this last episode And some of the original theme music? so they either Ignore the Original completely, OR they at least Try to make it fit in!
Sayonara Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 biggest error I saw was that in the Original BSG, they already made it to earth, Dillon and Troy with their flying motorbikes.and yet they used the original cylons in this last episode And some of the original theme music? The "old" style Centurions still exist. We've seen them before guarding the original hybrid at that isolated Basestar in Razor Flashback. It makes sense that the Colony would have their own contingent; after all the Centurions were to some degree self-aware (which is why the first war began) so the skinjobs are hardly likely to destroy them all just because they are the old model. so they either Ignore the Original completely, OR they at least Try to make it fit in! The entire point of the re-imagined series is that it is the latest iteration of an ongoing historical cycle. They made quite a good job of fitting that in, I thought. The only major discrepancy is the "old Galactica got to Earth" bit, which you can either choose to write off as being over-written by the new story, or assume that similar events happened 1,500 years ago and the "old" Galactica fled to Earth 1, just prior to the founding of the Thirteenth Tribe.
YT2095 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 or assume that similar events happened 1,500 years ago and the "old" Galactica fled to Earth 1, just prior to the founding of the Thirteenth Tribe. you can`t do that, they even did an episode with Wolfman Jack in it (playing himself), that stretches credulity just a little too far. to be honest, I don`t what to make of it all, and if I didn`t know better, I`d swear it was written by the same lot responsible for `Lost`.
YT2095 Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 well.. in the Original, Earth (1) as some call it on here was called Terra, so I`m guessing that the Prequel called Caprica is where the eastern alliance (and Western) come into it. one of which maybe Cylon allied, the Eastern Alliance never had Cylon problems to my memory, so it`s probably Them.
bascule Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 The entire point of the re-imagined series is that it is the latest iteration of an ongoing historical cycle. They made quite a good job of fitting that in, I thought. The only major discrepancy is the "old Galactica got to Earth" bit, which you can either choose to write off as being over-written by the new story, or assume that similar events happened 1,500 years ago and the "old" Galactica fled to Earth 1, just prior to the founding of the Thirteenth Tribe. That doesn't work within the timeline of the old story. Reimagined BSG ends some time in human prehistory. Original BSG ends on Earth (like, the real Earth) in the year 1980. -- Also, Hera is mitochondrial eve? How can you possibly prove a given fossil is mitochondrial eve?
padren Posted March 25, 2009 Posted March 25, 2009 Also, Hera is mitochondrial eve? How can you possibly prove a given fossil is mitochondrial eve? Well, since it was set in modern times when the article was read, we can assume it was 90% fluff and at most 10% science.
Sayonara Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 That doesn't work within the timeline of the old story. Reimagined BSG ends some time in human prehistory. Original BSG ends on Earth (like, the real Earth) in the year 1980. "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." Who knows how many cycles there have been? Not even the Hybrids.
bascule Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." When I originally heard that, I thought of the Brunnen-G from Lexx, who said similar things but the sentiment of the whole thing is that time is a loop and when it's over it starts over from the beginning. I assumed that was the case with the Cylons originally (i.e. the Cylons represented a Singularity event who would eventually bring about the end of the universe/whatever. Guess not. They just mean history repeats itself. Awesome...
Daecon Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 They shoudl have ended the series with the mid-season-4 finale. The second half of Season 4 feels like the ending of the movie A.I. They shoudl have quit while they were ahead, instead they jumped the shark and ruined the whole thing.
lakmilis Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 Frak me.. someone deleted my deus ex machina entry about BSG on wiki grrr. jees .. the ending .. so cut short... ah well...
antimatter Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 I think that they pulled it off the only way that they really could. I wish that they talked a little more about the history of the Cylons, and gave some more detail about Earth...they left a lot of loose ends. I guess The Plan was their solution to it.
bascule Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 Frak me.. someone deleted my deus ex machina entry about BSG on wiki grrr. Yes the ending was certainly some deus ex machina crap for sure Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedI think that they pulled it off the only way that they really could. They could've pursued all the dangling storylines they had throughout the show which appeared to be a part of a build to a climax. Instead they... didn't? WTF? It's as if they don't understand the classical structure of a novel and how to apply that to a long-running television series.
antimatter Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 Instead they... didn't? WTF? It's as if they don't understand the classical structure of a novel and how to apply that to a long-running television series. A lot of the things they didn't have time to do. However, the mutiny plot arc, while interesting, was unnecessary, and could have been replaced with some flashbacks or explanations of those dangling plot arcs. Did we ever find out what happened to Earth? It was bombed; but by why? Themselves? Their own Cylons? Weren't they originally Cylons? What the frak? I did enjoy it while it lasted. Seasons 1 and 3 in particular being my favorites. How 'bout yours Bascule?
padren Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 I will say when the "Last Frakkin Special" came out and it basically let out that Ron still had no idea who the final 5th cylon was until the last minute it made it pretty clear he was really playing it as he went - and that did impact my expectations of the final episode. I still felt it ended well as far as how well it could end - but it did tick me off in a "What? This has just been a glorified game of Mad-Libs all this time??" sort of way.
bascule Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 A lot of the things they didn't have time to do. Well seriously... make time! *facepalm* The last several episodes weren't the least bit action packed. They seemed to drag on... and on. They had time. They just wasted it.
antimatter Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) I will say when the "Last Frakkin Special" came out and it basically let out that Ron still had no idea who the final 5th cylon was until the last minute it made it pretty clear he was really playing it as he went - and that did impact my expectations of the final episode. I still felt it ended well as far as how well it could end - but it did tick me off in a "What? This has just been a glorified game of Mad-Libs all this time??" sort of way. I'm actually pretty sure that there was an interview where he stated that knew the fifth since the end of season 3... http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2009/01/20/ron-moore-discusses-bsg-revelations/ Moore also said that he and the writers had singled out Ellen as the final Cylon as far back as the third season of the show. Well seriously... make time! *facepalm* The last several episodes weren't the least bit action packed. They seemed to drag on... and on. They had time. They just wasted it. They didn't drag on, they offered a lot more exposition and depth to the characters! Sure they wasted some time, bascule, I have yet to figure out why (I'm sure there's a reason...) but it's better than having one episode where they just bombard us with answers from every single answer. Maybe it's just me. Edited March 31, 2009 by antimatter Consecutive posts merged.
ParanoiA Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 I don't think you can create a multi-season series like this and have a satisfying ending for everyone. Too much hype. I thought it was terrific. It answered the questions about "this has happened before and will happen again" and even included the present as a variable to that end. It answered all of the dream stuff, with the president and Athena running to the kiddo, and all that, the final 5 elevated above them. It imagined the idea that we came from them. Very neat. And it left other stuff dangling - which I believe creates a purpose for storylines from other BSG concoctions to intersect and answer. Although I can see how that can rub people wrong. The whole Starbuck thing bugs the hell out of me and I'm really hoping there's a good reason for leaving that HUGE hole dangling in the story - I'm hoping they have something else in mind to cover that mystery. Otherwise, that's just chickenshit. I don't have any issues with the series, really at all, other than that. They did great. Deus ex machina? I don't know. I'm one who likes that. The ending to War of the Worlds has always been my favorite. Most would call that deus ex machina. It's also far more interesting, and honest, I think.
Sisyphus Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Well, I just finished the series last night, and boy did that finale annoy me, for several reasons. My grievances: 1) It's clear they've just been making up some mysteries as they go along without an actual answer in mind, and apparently they're not clever enough to disguise that by coming up with satisfying solutions. Oh, the whole thing with shared recurring dreams about the opera house was just so they could find their way through a ship they've been living on for several years? Thanks, mysterious deity! 2) Decision to intentionally destroy what's left of civilization and live like hunter-gatherers? So incredibly stupid. I don't even want to talk about it. 3) Why was Hera so special, again? Because she was the key to a solution they never pursued? Or so she could somehow be the common ancestor to everyone (desirable why?), despite there being tens of thousands of survivors on the new Earth? 4) So, the moral of the story is that our AIBOs are going to kill us if we're not nice to them? And we'll deserve it? What should we be doing differently?
ParanoiA Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 Hendrix was, since his version was soooo much better. 1) It's clear they've just been making up some mysteries as they go along without an actual answer in mind, and apparently they're not clever enough to disguise that by coming up with satisfying solutions. Oh, the whole thing with shared recurring dreams about the opera house was just so they could find their way through a ship they've been living on for several years? Thanks, mysterious deity! Wasn't that just about prescience, and not really any purpose? I never thought the dream was supposed to help, in any way. 2) Decision to intentionally destroy what's left of civilization and live like hunter-gatherers? So incredibly stupid. I don't even want to talk about it. I had to laugh here, because I initially thought they were giving a huge green treatment to BSG with some misanthropic notion that we should draw some arbitrary line in our "tool making" so that we never have lights and gizmos ever again... Honestly, I think this would have worked better if it were the other way around. If WE were their ancestors, that evolved into them. It would explain the dialect, the language, the design of our bodies... I had a hard time accepting that they are supposed to be our ancestors, yet they spoke english (like all aliens seem to...), thought and acted like we do, appear to be built like us...I don't know. Maybe the coolest ending would be if the last Cylon ship and the last human ship each fired their nukes, and we all died. All the cylons and humans, dead for good. That would have been sweet.
padren Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 I'm actually pretty sure that there was an interview where he stated that knew the fifth since the end of season 3...http://www.sliceofscifi.com/2009/01/20/ron-moore-discusses-bsg-revelations/ Well perhaps "until the last minute" was a bit of an exaggeration but essentially they were still humming and hawing about who it was before settling on Ellen after her character was already killed off - at least that's what the Frakk'n special seemed to say. I found that to be a pretty big thing to "leave open" and figure out as you go. It added a degree of "timelessness" to her relationship with Tigh which was interesting but I think it muddied other stuff up. Such as how Tigh knocks up Six, then "poof" baby dies Six pouts for a day and they get over it and he and Ellen are just back to normal. To me that seemed like the kind of "under rug clean up" you play when you treat the plot as a giant mad lib game - which to their credit they did play very well. Not everything can be planned out, but I think they played it too close to the edge and it suffered a bit as a result. (And gained in other aspects too sure, I'm not a writer so I can't really criticize too much.)
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