Good Luck message for Mr Obama and the USA

[bascule]

I was listening to the radio. I'm surprised at how hawkish he sounded.

 

Compared to Bush? Or compared to a wet paper bag? What are you listening to? Or smoking?

 

The biggest hawk in recent history just left office. He started two wars and bankrupted the country.

 

So uhh, WHAT???

 

Other than that his speech basically boiled down to increasing the size of government

 

Hey, the last administration did that too! Par for the course!

 

Actually, there was a lot of talk about increasing government efficiency. Never heard that out of Bush, until Democrats took office...

 

Now Democrats have the majority, and despite that Obama is looking for ways to more efficiently spend federal money. He's not being motivated by partisan politics. It's AMAZING!

 

I still can't believe we spent $150 million on this dog and pony show (mostly from fed and DC/Maryland/Virginia gov't.)

 

Actually, $45 million are coming from private funds. The $49 million in federal funds behind it actually came from a budget written by the Bush administration! [source]

 

Obama's getting heralded in on deficit spending

 

BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION! Yeah, they did an awful lot of that. More than any other administration in history. By FAR.

 

and I don't see that changing throughout the course of his presidency. It's going to be an interesting 4 years.

 

I predict a lot of much ado about nothing whining by the same angsty conservatives who were wrong about everything for the past eight years.

 

The worst president in US history just left office. People have reason to celebrate. Can you really blame them? I guess you can, considering your post was all sour grapes. Whatever, sucks to be you.

[Mr Skeptic]

In defense of the pomp, circumstance and the money that it takes... while I agree it's rather frivolous I think the intention is rally the mood of the nation. I suppose that could be called "propaganda" but it could also be called "restoring confidence" at the same time.

 

That, combined with the historic event (first black president) and the number of people wanting to celebrate Bush B Gone. Lifting the mood of the entire nation might be worth the excess in the spending. However, it probably does foreshadow a lot of spending.

[bascule]

However, it probably does foreshadow a lot of spending.

 

Again, par for the course, except his predecessor massively and unprecedentedly increased spending when the country wasn't in the midst of two wars and a financial crisis.

 

The Bush administration effectively shat all over the country and left it completely f-ed up. Already I've heard nonstop whining from conservatives about how much they suspect Obama will spend.

 

Where were you people for the last 8 years? Did you have your heads buried in the sand, only to pull them out so you can bitch when a Democrat gets elected?

 

(nothing personal directed at you, of course, MrSkeptic)

[ParanoiA]

Compared to Bush? Or compared to a wet paper bag? What are you listening to? Or smoking?

 

The biggest hawk in recent history just left office. He started two wars and bankrupted the country.

 

Hey' date=' the last administration did that too! Par for the course!

 

Actually, there was a lot of talk about increasing government efficiency. Never heard that out of Bush, until Democrats took office...[/quote']

 

BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION! Yeah, they did an awful lot of that. More than any other administration in history. By FAR.

 

The worst president in US history just left office. People have reason to celebrate. Can you really blame them? I guess you can, considering your post was all sour grapes. Whatever, sucks to be you.

 

So I guess you're going to continue to arbitrarily redirect Obama criticism to the Bush administration for next 4 years? The best we're going to get it is a "oh Yeah, well Bush...yadda yadda yadda...?" How pathetic. It's the day after inauguration and you're still whine bagging about Bush. And baiting an anti-Bush, non-conservative, non-neocon, non-liberal while you're doing it. Fabulous.

 

Next I suppose you're going to make believe ecoli and Skeptic are hard core christian conservatives and attempt to bait them like you did above. That'll be fun.

 

Oh, here's a thought....how about you refute ecoli's points, rather than play democrat partisan spin machine? Or, here's another thought....how about dropping the democrat response flow chart for use on republicans, and instead take on ecoli's points AS IF he's his own man? I know, I know, that kind of thinking is WAY out there...

[DrP]

I'd say you'd have to give the man some time. He will undoubtedly upset some people (who was it that said "you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please ALL the people ALL of the time"? - I think it might have been Confusious ()). He is a human being - but as I see it there is a buzz about him which may for the short term bring a bit of hope, trust and expectation to the world/US... I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here really -I might well be speaking dross - except, give the guy a chance - and don't jump on him for the first mistake he makes or the first time he declares a policy you don't like. Otherwise he is destined to fail anyway. I doubt he will bring about world peace, a free health service for all and a way out of rescession overnight - but please give him a chance to try.

[iNow]

Absolutely, DrP! There was a line from his speech yesterday which he directed at the Muslim world which I think applies to this thread and the ideological arguments taking place.

 

 

 

To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect. To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society's ills on the West — know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy. To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history; but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist.

[npts2020]

IMO the inauguration speech was fairly mediocre by Obama standards, but still pretty good. He said most of the things I think people want to hear but the actions will soon tell. (Can anyone say another $825 billion bailout?)

[ParanoiA]

Well it depends. Making the 'give the guy a chance' appeal only applies as any sort of answer if you're merely questioning his ability to perform. However, if you disagree with his method and ideology altogether, then giving him a chance is not applicable.

 

I don't remember any of us responding to Bush criticisms with appeals to getting along, or any cherry picked flowery speech derivatives as some kind of answer to dissention. That's not an answer, that's an offended follower.

 

Obama will be criticized throughout his presidency. Those of us who lean libertarian; free market advocates of fractionally small government footprint are not going to like Obama any better than Bush. Not sure why anyone didn't see that coming. And no, I hope he doesn't get a chance to screw up the economy even worse than it already is.

 

And why let that bother you? I would expect nothing less from everyone else. If my guy got elected, I fully expect those afraid of freedom to dissent. And they would, no doubt.

 

We're not talking about suicide bombing, we're talking about political difference of opinion. I think Obama is calling for civil discourse, not unconditional indifference.

[Pangloss]

I agree with the above.

[bascule]

So I guess you're going to continue to arbitrarily redirect Obama criticism to the Bush administration for next 4 years?

 

Yes, clearly I'm on a slippery slope criticizing people for criticizing Obama for decisions he hasn't even made yet. If I'm doing it on inauguration day then clearly I'll be doing it for the next 4 years, right?

 

The guy just got inaugurated today (well, yesterday now). Can we withhold the criticism until he's actually done something objectionable?

 

Oh, here's a thought....how about you refute ecoli's points, rather than play democrat partisan spin machine?

 

He doesn't have any points. There isn't anything substantive to criticize at this point, but people are doing it anyway.

 

Perhaps I should criticize the next Republican president for taking away our civil liberties, cutting taxes on the upper class, opposing scientific research into stem cells and global warming, and getting us involved in yet another war? Would that be silly?

[ecoli]

The guy just got inaugurated today (well, yesterday now). Can we withhold the criticism until he's actually done something objectionable?

 

Only if we can also withhold undeserved praise... but that doesn't appear to be possible, esp. if you're a mainstream media outlet.

 

Perhaps I should criticize the next Republican president for taking away our civil liberties, cutting taxes on the upper class, opposing scientific research into stem cells and global warming, and getting us involved in yet another war? Would that be silly?

Criticism of Obama is being based on his widely published policy positions and previous voting record... what's the problem?

[ParanoiA]

Yes' date=' clearly I'm on a slippery slope criticizing people for criticizing Obama for decisions he hasn't even made yet. If I'm doing it on inauguration day then clearly I'll be doing it for the next 4 years, right?

 

The guy just got inaugurated today (well, yesterday now). Can we withhold the criticism until he's actually done something objectionable?[/quote']

 

Sure...oh wait, he did something objectionable on his inauguration day. Damn. Now what?

 

Because you weren't all over Sarah Palin and her wardrobe were you? Oh no, that wasn't you complaining that McCain and her were out of touch with americans "struggling" in this economy, was it? That's why it's perfectly cool with you to spend millions of dollars on celebrations. Weeee...let's party like we didn't just say americans are struggling financially and everywhere we look there are problems.

 

Hey, Obama's the one running around talking about change. I'm just the one looking for it. Nothing new so far....

 

Or, you could drop the indignation act and accept ecoli's original "light" criticism without painting him as a closet Bush supporter who just lost his lunch money on a bet with a black panther.

[DrP]

Making the 'give the guy a chance' appeal only applies as any sort of answer if you're merely questioning his ability to perform. However, if you disagree with his method and ideology altogether, then giving him a chance is not applicable.

 

 

Well you do live in a democracy! and the majority of people voted for him - so it is his turn to have go. So lets see what he does, that's all I'm saying. I'm sure he'll upset some people - that's politics - but give him a chance as the majority of people want to see what he's going to do.

[Sisyphus]

I say the innauguration probably stimulated the economy. All those people travelling, staying at hotels, buying Obama t-shirts. Not to mention all the business for... whoever they hired with that $100 million (or whatever it is).

[iNow]

Good point, Sisyphus. Focussing only on the dollar amount causes us to look at this in a vacuum and ignore the downstream impact. Besides just the "good will and feelings" which will carry forward, there are clearly effects where the economy was stimulated for the reasons you mentioned and others.

[ParanoiA]

Well you do live in a democracy! and the majority of people voted for him - so it is his turn to have go. So lets see what he does, that's all I'm saying. I'm sure he'll upset some people - that's politics - but give him a chance as the majority of people want to see what he's going to do.

 

Yeah, I got ya'. He has his turn, no matter. The people have spoken, I got no beef with that.

 

I'm just saying that realistically speaking, you can't really expect everyone to wish him success if that success conflicts with their own goals. What if we elected Palin instead? Would you be happy to "give her a chance" if her agenda includes book burning and rolling out intelligent design in our schools?

 

I'm happy we have a black president. That's all I'm happy about, and really, I shouldn't be, it's shallow.

[iNow]

You guys raise interesting points. But, it wasn't Palin who was running for Prez, it was McCain... and yes, I would be trying to give him a chance to make his mark before I decided to start shitting all over him about the inauguration. I said interesting points b/c if it WERE Palin, I'd be crucifying her with my words, and possibly subject to the same response I gave ecoli and you bascule. I don't want to sound like a hypocrit, but I suppose there are double standards to be found in my approach.

[Mr Skeptic]

I'm quite uncomfortable with the idea that "wasting" money stimulates the economy. Odds are, the money would have been spent anyways, probably on something more useful. The inauguration probably resulted in a net movement of money from the US to outside, eg the money on imported foods and fuels. Maybe we got money from selling the broadcasts to other countries? Other than that, it seems like a big waste of money from a purely economic standpoint. It may have been worth it if it was uplifting enough though.

[Sisyphus]

I was being somewhat tongue in cheek, but actually I wonder. I mean, the holidays are always a big boost to the economy, and despite it essentially being just a lot of people "wasting" money. There was a lot of extra economic activity yesterday. A couple million consumers spending a lot of money. One BIG consumer (that is, the government) spending a lot of money. I don't know where the money went (not that I've actually tried to find out), so I can't speculate what effect it might have.

[Pangloss]

Well, it's a couple million people spending a little more than they would normally spend at home. Still pretty much a drop in the bucket, really.

 

In terms of the money spent on the inauguration, it's a sheer pittance. It's a $14 trillion economy, after all.

[ParanoiA]

You guys raise interesting points. But, it wasn't Palin who was running for Prez, it was McCain... and yes, I would be trying to give him a chance to make his mark before I decided to start shitting all over him about the inauguration. I said interesting points b/c if it WERE Palin, I'd be crucifying her with my words, and possibly subject to the same response I gave ecoli and you bascule. I don't want to sound like a hypocrit, but I suppose there are double standards to be found in my approach.

 

And that's really where I was coming from. I appreciate your honesty.

 

 

 

This, is what I fear:

 

There is little doubt that Obama's administration is going to justify more deficit spending in the name of economic health and the public good.

 

What we saw from Bush was deficit spending for the public good - to protect us against terrorism by starting war. It's worrying to think that the next president of the US is set for more deficit spending to protect us yet again. One excuse after another to keep spending money. Each excuse only seems reasonable in a local context - none of them make any long term sense. Unless of course continually devaluing the dollar is sense.

 

I find this very troubling. I fear we're just going to keep on conceding to specious logic and spending ourselves into third world status. That's the biggest reason why I can't just say "best wishes Barack".

[padren]

I can understand where you are coming from ParanoiA - It's almost a "can't fool everyone all the time" sort of concern... in which one administration sucks huge amounts of money out to defend against shadowy terrorist threats that half the people see as blatant fear mongering and completely corrupt, while the other half see it as an absolute imperative.

 

Then, changing of the guards, and a new administration fools the other half of people by saying we have to suck tons of money out of us to defend against shadowy market forces threatening social services, while the other half of the people see it as completely ineffective.

 

It could be one of those scenarios. I can't tell, because I'd fall into the half that felt terrorism was over hyped and I actually believe we need to temporarily boost social programs to do repair work.

 

The one thing I do like about his spending mentality is he seems to want to budget money for repairs to programs, not inflating programs themselves. There of course is a lot of danger of this happening as there always is in government, but I think it can be done right. I guess only time will tell.

 

 

Regarding the whole disagreement on what is "civil" to disagree about immediately following the inauguration I think part of the deal is that, yes - it's perfectly understandable that many people do not support his ideology, and will be quick to point out where his ideology is enacted with some degree of hypocritical elements. It's also not fair to throw the "Bush was worse" card out as a blanket defense, since we probably can all agree he's not a decent standard to measure any president's actions by.

 

What I think people are (perhaps preemptively) jumpy about, is Obama being attacked for doing exactly as he promised because some people don't agree with the promises he made.

That, and perhaps the finer points about the sending on the inauguration could be legitimately seen as nitpicking, and at the same time as a genuine concern - it's gray enough I can understand both perspectives.

[ParanoiA]

Damn padren...you managed to agree with everyone in here. How'd you do that?

[john5746]

I think Obama's message about changing politics should not be considered as a plea to stop complaining. One can be respectful and complain. We shouldn't all be yes men. I am sure he expects some complaints and discussions, so it is never to early to start. He wants to spend alot of money, so people should voice their opinion on where it should go or if it should be done at all.

 

Complaints about the inauguration and other ceremonial spending is nitpicking, but so was the stuff about the Big Three CEO's flying to Washington. What goes around, comes around.

[iNow]

A bit delayed, but here is the text of the inauguration address, for easy reference:

 

And here's the video: