is the essence of time > movement ?

[Jacques]

For me time is an aspect of motion like space is an aspect of motion.

For me all that exist is motion and motion is made of space and time

[north]

Originally Posted by north

is not actually prove the opposite ?

 

is it not then that the object controls time ?

 

rather than time in and of its self controls the time the object takes ?

 

it seems that it is the object that controls time

 

How do you distinguish that from "some physical laws dictate both time and movement?"

 

movement is the basis of the law not time

 

if time happens to be, the basis of the law then this law is based on an observer

 

 

Correlation is not proof of causality.

 

meaning ?

[swansont]

movement is the basis of the law not time

 

Your conjecture. How can you falsify it? What support do you have for it?

[north]

[Originally Posted by north]

movement is the basis of the law not time

 

 

Your conjecture. How can you falsify it?

 

you can't

 

imagine no objects at all in space

 

where then in the absence of any objects in space does the measurement of time come from ?

 

 

 

 

What support do you have for it?

 

reason

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For me time is an aspect of motion like space is an aspect of motion.

For me all that exist is motion and motion is made of space and time

 

I disagree

 

motion or movement ,as I perfer , is expressed in space and time

 

but the essence of the motion or movement is always about the object(s) involved

 

always

[moth]

Lorentz said the rate at which time passes depends on the velocity of energy moving (compared to some other point) through space, to me rate implies ratio like velocity=distance/time, so what is the ratio for time passage? seconds per second seems useless except for describing acceleration so what would be a reasonable denominator?

[Klaynos]

 

 

 

you can't

 

Then it's not science, it's philosophy.

[swansont]

movement is the basis of the law not time

 

 

 

 

you can't

 

imagine no objects at all in space

 

where then in the absence of any objects in space does the measurement of time come from ?

 

 

Once you start "imagining" things that are unphysical, you can reach just about any conclusion you wish.

 

As Klaynos said, this is philosophy.

[throng]

I was considering no movement, no heat, no 'fluctuations, no change - it's all the same thing by metaphorical value.

 

There'd actually be no interaction between things. Gravity? Can matter exist without change?

 

Time is a relative of change, partners in crime.

 

c is like the one thing all other things can be compared equally to, c for change I guess.

[north]

time is the measurement( mathematical ) of the movement of an object(s) , nothing more

 

time has No intrinstic physical properties associated to it and/or unto its self , and never will

 

therefore , time in and of its self , cannot speed up or slow down any interaction(s) between objects and within any object

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can anyone argue that time is beyond a mathematical concept , in the sense that time actually has any physical influence on any physical object ?

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convince me , I'm open to any theory that can prove me wrong

[Mr Skeptic]

time is the measurement( mathematical ) of the movement of an object(s) , nothing more

 

How do you know that? Certainly some people define time in that manner, but does everyone?

 

time has No intrinstic physical properties associated to it and/or unto its self , and never will

 

therefore , time in and of its self , cannot speed up or slow down any interaction(s) between objects and within any object

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can anyone argue that time is beyond a mathematical concept , in the sense that time actually has any physical influence on any physical object ?

 

Yes, in fact you yourself did. You need time to move objects. Also, time seems to influence my watch, imagine that.

 

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convince me , I'm open to any theory that can prove me wrong

 

I doubt that, based on your previous posts. In any case, it is not others' responsibility to prove you wrong, but your responsibility to prove you right when you make a new claim.

[the tree]

time is the measurement( mathematical ) of the movement of an object(s) , nothing more

That's circular though, movement is defined in relation to time.

 

time has No intrinstic physical properties associated to it and/or unto its self , and never will

Sure it does linearity (or not, possibly) and continuity (or not, probably) are obvious properties for any metric.

 

therefore , time in and of its self , cannot speed up or slow down any interaction(s) between objects and within any object

Well of course not, that wouldn't make any sense again with the circularity.

 

can anyone argue that time is beyond a mathematical concept , in the sense that time actually has any physical influence on any physical object ?

What would that mean?

 

convince me , I'm open to any theory that can prove me wrong

I'm not sure even you know what you're trying to say.

[moth]

time has No intrinstic physical properties associated to it and/or unto its self , and never will

 

is entropy an intrinsic physical property of the universe, or of time?

[the tree]

Well, if you took time out of the universe you wouldn't have a meaningful way to define entropy.

[moth]

Well, if you took time out of the universe you wouldn't have a meaningful way to define entropy.

 

entropy requires time and energy to make sense.i was trying to point out there is a "long" time in addition to "differential" time like the distance argument in O.P.

[north]

Well, if you took time out of the universe you wouldn't have a meaningful way to define entropy.

 

and thats my point

 

time helps us to understand the Universe

 

but in no way does time influence entropy , in and of its self

[moth]

and thats my point

 

time helps us to understand the Universe

 

but in no way does time influence entropy , in and of its self

 

what if time ran at a different rate? or backwards? wouldn't that have an effect on entropy?

[north]

what if time ran at a different rate? or backwards? wouldn't that have an effect on entropy?

 

NO

 

what is the essence of time to you ?

[moth]

NO

 

what is the essence of time to you ?

 

almost the same as the essence of up.

[north]

almost the same as the essence of up.

 

well thats informative:confused:

 

care to clearify:D

[iNow]

North - Haven't you started this conversation like six times already here at SFN? What's new about this thread that will prevent it from getting locked?

[north]

North - Haven't you started this conversation like six times already here at SFN? What's new about this thread that will prevent it from getting locked?

 

because it seems that the pervasive thinking is that time is some sort of physical entity in and of its self that has some influence on the behaviour of things . time doesn't

 

but some people seem to think so

 

why not discuss this subject in depth to clarify this attitude about time once and for all

[Mr Skeptic]

Don't quantum folks have an extremely different view of time?

[Dudde]

I think time is something made up my humanity to have something to measure by. Like the standard and metric systems - the universe doesn't care about kilometers or years, just movement

[north]

Don't quantum folks have an extremely different view of time?

 

It seems

 

a hop , skip and a jump

 

but the basis of time never changes

 

that is that time is based on the movement of objects , in this case electrons

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I think time is something made up my humanity to have something to measure by. Like the standard and metric systems - the universe doesn't care about kilometers or years, just movement

 

exactly

 

just movement , just movement

 

nothing more , nothing less

[NowThatWeKnow]

Time does not force movement but it does allow movement.