Obama's re-examination of Bush policy (a.k.a. undoing 8 years of stupidity)

[bascule]

http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_abortion_policy/2009/01/23/174721.html

 

Obama has overturned a Bush administration ban on giving funds to international organizations which, under an umbrella of other functions, perform abortions.

 

Oh yeah, and he closed Gitmo.

 

I give a thumbs up to both of these actions.

 

So feel free to post here with updates on various Bush administration executive orders and policies Obama has overturned.

[ParanoiA]

He closed Gitmo about as certainly as Iraq was "mission accomplished". Looks like we're taking a page out of the Bush administration handbook of spin.

 

Oh, and why are we sending money to other countries while we're broke and running a 10 trillion dollar debt?

[Pangloss]

I disagree, I think THAT kind of closing of Gitmo would have been immediately shutting the doors and setting all of the prisoners free. He did not do that, ParanoiA.

[ParanoiA]

I disagree, I think THAT kind of closing of Gitmo would have been immediately shutting the doors and setting all of the prisoners free. He did not do that, ParanoiA.

 

I guess I've confused myself with my own analogy. Gitmo is not closed. They signed a piece of paper promising to do it in a year - but it's not closed yet, it's still running just like the day before. I find that similar to declaring Iraq as mission accomplished, while we continue to fight the war there, just like the day before.

 

Calling things done, when they're not done, is what I though my analogy was pointing out. And I'm shocked since so many decried Bush for declaring "mission accomplished" while people still shoot and bomb each other, yet here Bascule wants to hand Obama credit on the same basis. Fascinating.

 

Gitmo will be closed when it's closed. Not a moment sooner, no matter how much symbolic fog you block the view with.

[iNow]

A list of executive orders to date:

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/executive-orders-to-date/

Yesterday, President Obama issued a series of Executive Orders:

• Calling for the
  closure of the Guantanamo
  detention center within one year
  
  
• Creating a
  Special Task Force
  to review detainee policy going forward
  
  
• Ensuring lawful interrogations
  by requiring that all interrogations of detainees in armed conflict follow the Army Field Manual interrogation guidelines

On Wednesday, The President also issued orders on

Presidential Records

and

Ethics Commitments by Executive Branch Personnel

.

 

We will post all of the President's Executive Orders on WhiteHouse.gov. To read more about these Executive Orders and keep up to date with future orders,

click here

.

[Pangloss]

I guess I've confused myself with my own analogy. Gitmo is not closed. They signed a piece of paper promising to do it in a year - but it's not closed yet, it's still running just like the day before. I find that similar to declaring Iraq as mission accomplished, while we continue to fight the war there, just like the day before.

 

Calling things done, when they're not done, is what I though my analogy was pointing out. And I'm shocked since so many decried Bush for declaring "mission accomplished" while people still shoot and bomb each other, yet here Bascule wants to hand Obama credit on the same basis. Fascinating.

 

Gitmo will be closed when it's closed. Not a moment sooner, no matter how much symbolic fog you block the view with.

 

Please don't tell me you're going to act like the right-wing bloggers out there and remind us daily for the next 363 days that Gitmo hasn't been closed yet. I don't understand why anyone would assume that this would happen overnight, but the sheer idiocy of the far left is not an accurate reflection on the actions of the Obama administration, any more than the sheer idiocy of the far right was an accurate reflection on the actions of the Bush administration. You didn't tolerate that sort of behavior from the left then, and I assume you won't tolerate it from the right now. If you do you'll be letting me down, as well as many others here.

 

Nit-picking aside, the difference between this and "mission accomplished" (which is your analogy, so you have only yourself to blame for its injection into this subject) is that the case of each detainee will be reviewed for potential prosecution in American court. Now you can ridicule that proposition all you want, and talk about how that will fail, but until it actually does all you're doing is predicting failure. Do you feel that's a good way to handle the current political environment -- ridicule and failure prediction?

 

Well, I have two words for you: Mission accomplished.

[ParanoiA]

I don't know how the right wing bloggers act as I don't read it and have no idea what they say or believe, nor do I really care. I have no intention of reminding anyone on Gitmo ever, unless they come out and say it's closed when it's not.

 

I am going to hold Obama to the standard of reality. He doesn't get to take credit for things until they're done. And Obama isn't trying to, Bascule is.

 

Look, Obama is not my guy and there's about 10% of what he believes that I can agree with so don't misinterpret my criticisms as a right wing spin machine. Yes the far right doesn't care much for him either, but that doesn't put us on the same team, ok?

 

As far as the detainees are concerned I have no agenda at all. Seriously. My last post on that subject was about establishing what they are - POW's, or Combatants, or Unlawful Combatants - and no one has responded to it. I'm not up to Obama's speed here, nor do I have much of an opinion on it since I can't even get past square one - what the hell are they?

 

Once I'm comfortable with an answer to that, then I'll probably have a position to take on the matter.

 

For this thread, my only agenda was to call bullshit on declaring things done when they're not. I found it particularly insulting in light of how Bush was just thrashed over this for years, and here we are just mere days into Obama's administration and it's coming back the other direction.

[bascule]

I don't know how the right wing bloggers act as I don't read it and have no idea what they say or believe, nor do I really care. I have no intention of reminding anyone on Gitmo ever, unless they come out and say it's closed when it's not.

 

I am going to hold Obama to the standard of reality. He doesn't get to take credit for things until they're done. And Obama isn't trying to, Bascule is.

 

Look, Obama is not my guy and there's about 10% of what he believes that I can agree with so don't misinterpret my criticisms as a right wing spin machine. Yes the far right doesn't care much for him either, but that doesn't put us on the same team, ok?

 

As far as the detainees are concerned I have no agenda at all. Seriously. My last post on that subject was about establishing what they are - POW's, or Combatants, or Unlawful Combatants - and no one has responded to it. I'm not up to Obama's speed here, nor do I have much of an opinion on it since I can't even get past square one - what the hell are they?

 

Once I'm comfortable with an answer to that, then I'll probably have a position to take on the matter.

 

For this thread, my only agenda was to call bullshit on declaring things done when they're not. I found it particularly insulting in light of how Bush was just thrashed over this for years, and here we are just mere days into Obama's administration and it's coming back the other direction.

 

Is this all because you want me to say "he's closing Gitmo" instead of "he closed Gitmo"?

[ParanoiA]

Is this all because you want me to say "he's closing Gitmo" instead of "he closed Gitmo"?

 

No, this is all because I want you to say "he's closing Gitmo" instead of "he closed Gitmo":

 

He closed Gitmo about as certainly as Iraq was "mission accomplished". Looks like we're taking a page out of the Bush administration handbook of spin.

 

 

 

All of that other stuff was Pangloss drawing the wrong conclusions.

[Pangloss]

Well I guess I misunderstood, then, but it seems like you're harping over a pretty minor point. I don't think it's unreasonable to say "Gitmo was closed" -- that's the effect, even if it's not immediate. It's not as if we're going to be sending anyone else there, and the only reason there's anybody there right now is because they're being cautious in their dispensation. Why does that translate to "not closed" in your mind, on anything other than a technical level?

[ParanoiA]

I guess I'm not convinced it's a guarantee things will happen that way, but then maybe I'm letting the media bias me a bit. And my comment was a brief one liner, I didn't "harp" until I got called out.