ennui Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I'm curious about what people involved in science believe regarding God. Do you believe in God? Use any common definition you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Use any common definition you like. That's a problem. The definition will affect my answer. I do believe in an order and consistency to the universe. I don't call that "God," but some people would. Many of the things that people call "God" are things which I don't believe are real. I'm as certain about some of them as I am about anything, but I know that ultimately nothing is provable with absolute rigor. Some are falsified with as much certainty as science can give, some are unfalsified, many are unfalsifiable. And some aren't even cognitively meaningful concepts, just empty words. So does that make me a theist, an atheist, or an agnostic? People who think as I do don't generally use those labels except in convenience. I've heard the term "ignostic" tossed around, which seems to describe me pretty well, even if it is kind of a neologism. Oh, and btw: As a moderator, I should say that if this thread becomes a religious argument, I will close it down. It might be closed down anyway, but for now I'm allowing statements of opinion and polite requests for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticLance Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 As a science centred thinker, I believe that credible empirical evidence is needed before I adopt any specific belief. I noted myself as agnostic, because I do not believe such evidence exists for or against any kind of god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npts2020 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I agree with Sisyphus that the term "god" needs better definition. If it is defined as simply anything greater than myself I definitely am a believer (you and I should be greater than just I). However, if it is defined as a supernatural entity who takes an interest in human affairs I would be on the unbeliever side. The closest definition I have seen to my personal opinion of the subject is non-denominational non-theist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I am what you call a weak agnostic. I don't believe there is enough information to tell whether a god exists or not, but if a god did exist I think it would be able to prove its existence. Alternately, if scientists can show that everything in the world can be explained by natural laws, then I would consider that proof that a god as commonly defined (that they have some sort of effect on the universe) does not exist. So, I don't believe in god but I think it will eventually be possible to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomgwyther Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 As well as discussing what exactly one means by 'God', it is also necessary to understand or define what one means by 'Believe' e.g. I 'Believe' I live in Portsmouth, England I 'Believe' I have a dental appointment tomorrow. I 'Believe' in democracy I 'Believe' in free speech, are all employable uses of the word 'Believe'. As for 'Do I believe in God' it's somewhat of a false dichotomy. I don't so much dis-believe in god; I'm convinced it/he/she/them do not exist, in the same way I am convinced London is not in China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mag Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 simple answer: no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I know we don't have all the answers. I am quite certain that if a higher power exists, it's powers will be explainable through the physical laws of the universe. I am also certain we don't know everything about the physical universe. I am also certain that I have never heard a definition of "God" I could have faith in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daecon Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Which one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Just a note on the poll: Option 3 is not mutually exclusive with regards to Options 1 and 2: You can believe/not believe in the existence of god - and still believe we do not have knowledge of God's existence. Personally: Strong Agnostic - I don't think it's possible to know if there is a god, because I don't think our senses and faculties are capable of differentiating if any given perceived entity actually did create us and the universe. Any entity approaching that capacity would far exceed the requirements to completely deceive us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
north Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm curious about what people involved in science believe regarding God. Do you believe in God? absolutely NOT Use any common definition you like. god(s) the division of Humanity into seperate groups and therefore the ultimate down fall of Humanity for within each group they think they are closer to god than any other group and will kill in the end another Human being because of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrburns2012 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I believe in science. But I also believe in some essence of a god. Not the kind of god that charges monthly payments for miracles, has a beer belly, a beard, or named Tom Cruise. But the kind of god whose image can change under different circumstances convenient for my worldly view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
north Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I believe in science. But I also believe in some essence of a god. Not the kind of god that charges monthly payments for miracles, has a beer belly, a beard, or named Tom Cruise. But the kind of god whose image can change under different circumstances convenient for my worldly view. so this god is fleeting... that is down right dangerous for us all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrburns2012 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 so this god is fleeting... that is down right dangerous for us all Well, that would depend on whether or not I'm inherently crazy or seriously misguided in someway, wouldn't it? The difference between me and a bunch of religious nuts is that their craziness and misguidance may be amplified via the massive number of followers. The world is safe, at least from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
north Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Well, that would depend on whether or not I'm inherently crazy or seriously misguided in someway, wouldn't it? The difference between me and a bunch of religious nuts is that their craziness and misguidance may be amplified via the massive number of followers. The world is safe, at least from me. yes thank-goodness (geeze guy you me worried there for a time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsemmapeel Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 No I don't believe in god, even as a child when I had to go to church, I always thought it was all just stories and make-believe, I was actually quite surprised to discover later that people actually really do believe in god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I do. I don't really wan't to discuss why. I am a scientist and I believe in God. I hope I don't loose anyone from my freind list for this! Sometimes my faith gets challanged and I get tempted to change to the agnostic group as I don't think anyone can 'prove' anything either way - that's kind of why it is faith. Haven't been to church for years and probably won't for some time. I try to be a nice person, but I am a human being and can be a very naughty boy as well as a saint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 As noted in post #2, this is not a religious discussion, since such are not allowed under our present rules. This thread is merely for polling in a general way and expressing your own opinion. Any more criticism of another's views in this matter will cause the thread to be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It's odd that you have agnostic as a third choice. I picked "no" as I'm an Ignostic Agnostic Weak Atheist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Just a note on the poll: Option 3 is not mutually exclusive with regards to Options 1 and 2: You can believe/not believe in the existence of god - and still believe we do not have knowledge of God's existence. Quite right. One could choose both A & C or choose both B & C and still be providing a valid response to the poll. I don't believe in god for the same reason that I don't believe in the tooth fairy or unicorns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Quite right. One could choose both A & C or choose both B & C and still be providing a valid response to the poll. I don't believe in god for the same reason that I don't believe in the tooth fairy or unicorns. Indeed. Theists often caricature atheists as all being strong atheists(similar to an argument that all theists are Mormons) with no moral compass, and thus have given the word a sort of social stigma. It has, in fact been quite successful. One only has to see the abundance of various words atheists will use to describe themselves while dancing around the word "atheist." The core of atheism is just a response to theism. Theists say "One or more deities exist". And atheism is just people saying "I don't believe you." This can take on varying degrees of forcefulness(ranging from Weak Atheism: "I don't believe deities exist" to Strong Atheism:"I believe that no deities exist.") Weak Atheism(the core of atheism) obviously requires no faith and as such is often blatantly ignored by theists. Strong Atheism, on the other hand, requires just as much faith as theism. All that defines an atheist is that they do not answer "yes" when asked "Do you believe in the existence of one or more deities?". "Agnostic" is a term that is misused as nausium. I suspect that it is mostly due to the social stigma(which is thankfully somewhat receding) that I wrote of above. Agnostic is a modifier of the terms Theist and Atheist, and as such cannot stand on it's own. You either believe in the existence of one or more deities, or you don't; there is no middle ground. Atheism and Theism are the only options. Agnosticism is merely one flavour of the choices. "Agnostic" merely means that one believe that one cannot know whether or not deities exist. Thus, one can be an Agnostic Theist(believe one or more deities exist, but it is impossible to know for a fact that this is the truth) or one can be an Agnostic Atheist(lack a belief in deities, but also believe it is impossible to know whether or not deities exist), but one cannot JUST be an Agnostic. There is no middle ground between belief and disbelief; you either believe or you lack belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I would describe myself as an agnostic atheist. That is given the evidence I believe that god does not exist, but as I have no knowledge of god (whatever that is exactly) I cannot prove that he does not exist. I hope that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticLance Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I consider there to be three categories of 'non believer'. 1. Atheist. Someone who asserts there is no God. This seems to me to be as much an article of faith as a theist. 2. Agnostic. That's me. Not willing to assert one way or the other due to lack of evidence. 3. Adenominational. Someone who tends to believe a god or equivalent exists, but is not prepared to accept the narrower belief structure of a particular formal faith - whether Christian, Muslim or other. They do not worship formally, but may pray privately. I think there are a lot of these people out there, who are wrongly classified. The people who are clearly Christian (or other faith) will classify this lot as non believers, which is why I classify them as such - rightly or wrongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padren Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Thus, one can be an Agnostic Theist(believe one or more deities exist, but it is impossible to know for a fact that this is the truth) or one can be an Agnostic Atheist(lack a belief in deities, but also believe it is impossible to know whether or not deities exist), but one cannot JUST be an Agnostic. There is no middle ground between belief and disbelief; you either believe or you lack belief. I generally agree, but what if you think the question itself (whether there is a god or not) is not worth asking in the first place, and can't be bothered to think about it one way or another? Is there an alien spaceship hiding behind the moon? You can believe there is, or believe there isn't, or simply find the question not worth forming a belief about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I generally agree, but what if you think the question itself (whether there is a god or not) is not worth asking in the first place, and can't be bothered to think about it one way or another?That is called "Ignostic" and is a modifier of the atheist position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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