Immortality: A User’s Manual

[scrappy]

Being alive through memory and books and computers is great and all, but it can confuse people and make them think that maybe they do "live on". There is a big difference between being alive and enjoying life and experience and having your name written in the corner of a couple dozen books somewhere. We want to be able to have the chance to witness the future indefinite pioneering of the universe and all of existence and we want the chance to know the requisite 8.

 

By the way, for anybody interested in the science that is working to help us live with indefinite healthy lifespans, one of the worlds leading researchers, Dr. Aubrey deGrey, is going to be interviewed live tomorrow, sunday April 19th at 5pm cst time here: imminst.org/tv

 

If you watch it, the please comment on it here in scienceforums.

"Indefinite healthy lifespans" will not be possible in for biological entities. We are ephemeral critters, and that's all we'll ever be. Our job now as humans is to re-invent ourselves in a post-biological context. I'm not at all sure how we'll do this, but we'll do it anyway. My best guess is that we will take certain key features from our electromagnetic nervous system and render them operable and durable in a cyber context, which is already highly developed. (Our nervous systems and our computer systems both operate electromagnetically...and coincidentally, which may be a clue.) The biggest challenge that lies ahead is to gain a thorough understanding of consciousness—human consciousness—and reframe it without all the biological frailties.

[Mr Skeptic]

Our nervous system functions electrochemically, whereas computers use plain electricity, which is much faster. Not saying they're incompatible, just different.

[MM6]

I wonder if dolphins are having this same discussion.

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Wouldn't downloading the consciousness imply making a copy, since they are different types of support. Copying implies the original is discarded and the copy becomes a new consciousness. So it could be immortal but would be something other than the person it was copied from. Like making an instant twin...

 

Exactly. That's the paradox. That's why I don't buy into this concept of consciousness. Sumpin' ain't right about it.

[jjuris]

an unending question. would anyone really want to be immortal. everyone if they believe it or not is afraid of death, not so much as an end to your corporeal being, but the fear that there is nothing else beyond. Einstein had the idea that energy cannot be destroyed, and thats what we are, so take comfort in that. but if not you wont have to worry. youll be dead

[bascule]

I want to be immortal... or at least to be able to live long enough that I'm sick of living

[cameron marical]

"Indefinite healthy lifespans" will not be possible in for biological entities. We are ephemeral critters, and that's all we'll ever be. Our job now as humans is to re-invent ourselves in a post-biological context. I'm not at all sure how we'll do this, but we'll do it anyway. My best guess is that we will take certain key features from our electromagnetic nervous system and render them operable and durable in a cyber context, which is already highly developed. (Our nervous systems and our computer systems both operate electromagnetically...and coincidentally, which may be a clue.) The biggest challenge that lies ahead is to gain a thorough understanding of consciousness—human consciousness—and reframe it without all the biological frailties.

 

ive mentioned this in another post. the human body repares itself.iwhen the way is found to have the body repair itself indefinetly and everywhere given the needed "fuel" it would do it. i dont see why we cant live indefinetly while still in biotic form.

 

an unending question. would anyone really want to be immortal. everyone if they believe it or not is afraid of death, not so much as an end to your corporeal being, but the fear that there is nothing else beyond. Einstein had the idea that energy cannot be destroyed, and thats what we are, so take comfort in that. but if not you wont have to worry. youll be dead

 

that seems to be a usual responce to immortality. "why would you want to live indefinatly." because its indefinate. and at any point where you get tired of life, you can just off yourself and the problems solved. no pretend deep thinking required. would i like to be immortal. of course. to chose not is to chose to end know existence of yourself for ever as far as we know. why would you do that rather than live indefinately?

 

I want to be immortal... or at least to be able to live long enough that I'm sick of living

 

well said.

[jjuris]

thinking about immortality, i know im going to die, as is everyone else right now. there's no science that is going to save you, but i think one day it will. I think the key is to understand the brain, in incomprehendable detail. nothing is impossible, but still fear holds us back. we have many, many years of evolution ahead of us. im not going to see it, but i take comfort that it will happen

[guppyman]

I think when we are dead... our personality is gone.

 

The personality is not immortal.

[Mr Skeptic]

I want to be immortal... or at least to be able to live long enough that I'm sick of living

 

Another advantage of transferring your consciousness to a computer. You could painlessly do a delete(self). More interestingly, you could essentially sleep for 1000 years, and wake up again and see if you're still bored.

[scrappy]

Another advantage of transferring your consciousness to a computer. You could painlessly do a delete(self). More interestingly, you could essentially sleep for 1000 years, and wake up again and see if you're still bored.

Just think of the possibilities of "Save As."

[cameron marical]

but that would require either self automated computers that were durable for that long and got had its own sufficient heat source for that long, or someone else doing that in the "real" world.

[brokenportal]

Alright, good questions and points. I dont have time to go over them all right now, but the Dr. Aubrey deGrey is being interviewed live here: imminst.org/tv in less than an hour, so you can ask the man himself.

 

If your interested then please do show up there and then we can discuss it here later if anybody wants to. Your perspectives there would be great.

 

Thats imminst.org/tv -be there or be square.

[cameron marical]

wow! thanks for the link. i cant wait till that starts. aubrey degrays work is really fascinating. i actually sent him an email the other day and i got a reply discussing what i said from not him but the co auther of their new book.

[brokenportal]

What new book?

 

To the person that said that we cant live indefinitely, tell me again how you know what is possible and what isnt?

 

It may not be possible, but there are many things that point to it, like that we can cure some diseases and are getting better and better at it, and that they know the seven causes of aging. Its only a matter of time now. We are already working on it. The more support and expeditious spirit the better.

 

Like somebody said, I forget who, to paraphrase, "The impossible is usually accomplished by those that were to stupid to realize it was impossible."

 

Like Wayne Gretzky said, "100% of the shots you dont take dont go in." and like Marget Mead said, "Never doubt the power of small groups of people to change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has."

 

There are a million projects working to further this cause every day. If anybody wants to get in on any and or lend ideas and insight to any then let me know.

[brokenportal]

This is an important discussion. I would love to get more ideas from the kinds of people we have around here.

[bob000555]

According to quantum mechanics we are all immortal. Imagine playing Russian Roulette; when you pull the trigger the is a fifty percent chance that there is a bullet in the barrel. In a Shrodinger’s cat-esqu when you pull the trigger the bullet has both left the barrel and not left the barrel, you wont know until you observe it. But if it has left the barrel you wont observe it because you will be dead. It may indeed appear to outside observers as though you are dead but from your point of observation the universe will have split along two different time lines and you will be in the one where the gun did not fire.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide

[Mr Skeptic]

Alternately, you will briefly observe your brain splattered on the floor before you die.

[bob000555]

I suppose it would be possible to observe your self being permanently injured but the point remains that it is imposable to observe your own death. Outsiders could observe it but you could not thus the realty in which you die would not exist from your prospective.

[Sisyphus]

It is impossible to observe your own death, but that doesn't make you immortal. "Quantum suicide" is totally bogus, IMO. To be "observed" when talking about quantum states doesn't mean come to the attention of a conscious being, it means interact with something. Bullet-brain interactions are very real, I assure you.

 

So while it's true that under the many world's hypothesis, some version of you would survive every time, that doesn't mean that you personally can keep pulling the trigger and expect the miraculous.

[bascule]

According to quantum mechanics we are all immortal.

 

No, according to an interesting thought experiment, based on one particular interpretation of quantum mechanics, there might exist for each person at least one path through Everett's "many worlds" for which they are immortal.

 

This certainly does not mean "according to quantum mechanics we are all immortal"

 

That said, death is a far more macroscale sort of thing than a quantum event. Death happens on a level which can be understood by classical mechanics. If someone chainsaws your head off, short of a "quantum miracle" where your head miraculously reattaches to your neck you're probably going to die.

 

The scenario posed by the "quantum suicide" thought experiment involves using a quantum event to trigger death.

[scrappy]

Questions: If you are Google-able are you then virtually immortal? What about a Turing Test using FaceBook? Couldn't a sophisticated program be written by you to respond to all questions in a manner faithful to your opinions and persuasions?

 

Some may say that virtual immortality doesn't count as immortality, per se. I say that biological immortality is impossible and unnecessary. Given the right immortality download you could have all the biological experiences you want, since those too will be digital. You could have digital sex with Marilyn Monroe, safe sex, too, and then enjoy and digital steak dinner with Joe Dimaggio. After all, biological experiences must be converted into electrochemical signals and transmitted along fleshy pathways to a central processing unit. There's a lot to be improved upon.

[cameron marical]

I conqer.

 

But, as someone else said, Would the downloading of the selfs conciousness actually be you, or a copy? so that copy lives forever,but the original you doesnt. Also, how do you think that virtual self would be stored? binarily? everything from the tip of my nose to my curious attitude would be stored as binary digits in logic gates right? Is that really a person, or just software. Just commands for the computer, isnt it? I think in order to have an actual conciouss copy of yourself, It would have to be through something like an artificial neural network. Then you actaully have decisions that get generated through thinking and not just already programmed commands. I may be wrong though.

[brokenportal]

Rather than try to down load ourselves in to computers, or worry about whether or not immortality is possible, why not just end the aging process and then take it one day at a time from there?

 

The grass roots work for the cause and the hard core science is picking up more and more all the time. This is the cause of all causes. Its under way, and we need everybody who wants to help that we can get.

 

Just this month our organization setting up a matching grant for a peice of the research. Its laser ablation of lipofuscin. Lipofuscin accumulates in our cells as we age and causes them to senesce, or die.

 

If this laser treatment, or future treatment like it is successful, it can go a long, long ways in helping stop aging.

[cameron marical]

Do you work for SENS?

[brokenportal]

I volunteer for, support the whole cause, I support anything that can help us live longer with health. I was a sens foundation undergraduate research volunteer. Not sure if Im listed as one any more.

 

SENS is some of the only research going so far. We are working on helping devlop more through different sources. For example, there is Michael Roses work on ending aging that takes a different approach. Thats the only other one I know of so far.