scientist are still looking for zero temperature

[boywonder]

i think the only wat they will find it is if nothing exsisted because i think heat is the byproduct of the exsistance of somthing. as long as there is a gluon or nutrino or anything there will be a degree of heat. thought?

[Klaynos]

Absolute zero is not being searched for, we know we can't get there, for a number of reasons. But there are still efforts to get as close as possible, why, because interesting things happen to supercooled things (like superfluidity) and it allows us to remove sources of noise (thermal noise)... and sometimes other things, like we do it to reduce the number of free electrons in semiconductor samples.

[devrimci_kürt]

or anything there will be a degree of heat. thought?

a degree of heat??

I didn't understand:confused:

 

The term degree is used in several scales of temperature.

[swansont]

a degree of heat??

I didn't understand:confused:

 

The term degree is used in several scales of temperature.

 

"Degree" also means "amount." Confusing in this context, to be sure.

[devrimci_kürt]

"Degree" also means "amount." Confusing in this context, to be sure.

thanks for your reply

in turkish,degree meaning:derece(in physcis)

for example

sıcaklık bir kaç saatte 15 derece düştü

The temperature fell fifteen degrees in as many hours

temperature:sıcaklık

degree:derece (degrees:derece-ler- )

 

 

but,in turkish , heat,meaning:ısı

heat units:

Calorie -Joule.(not degree)

I know,degree is not heat unit in english(or in other languages)

but,because of -a degree of heat-......I am confused

[NowThatWeKnow]

but,in turkish , heat,meaning:ısı

heat units:

Calorie -Joule.(not degree)

I know,degree is not heat unit in english(or in other languages)

but,because of -a degree of heat-......I am confused

 

Degree - English

1. A unit division of a temperature scale.

2. A unit of latitude or longitude, equal to 1/360 of a great circle.

3. Relative intensity or amount, as of a quality or an attribute: a high degree of accuracy.

 

And it doesn't stop there.

[Airbrush]

i think the only wat they will find it is if nothing exsisted because i think heat is the byproduct of the exsistance of somthing. as long as there is a gluon or nutrino or anything there will be a degree of heat. thought?

 

Pun intended. Anyhow the word degree does not distract from the concept of absolute zero.

 

The temperature of cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR) is about 2.7 Kelvin above absolute zero. Does that little bit of heat come from the free atoms scattered about in nearly empty space? Maybe absolute zero does exist, but only way, WAY out there in totally empty space, where there are not even any hydrogen atoms.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Airbrush

[Sisyphus]

Pun intended. Anyhow the word degree does not distract from the concept of absolute zero.

 

The temperature of cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR) is about 2.7 Kelvin above absolute zero. Does that little bit of heat come from the free atoms scattered about in nearly empty space? Maybe absolute zero does exist, but only way, WAY out there in totally empty space, where there are not even any hydrogen atoms.

 

I wouldn't think so. CMBR would necessarily be more or less the same everywhere in the universe, if current theories aren't totally wrong. It's not a local effect. Check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background_radiation

 

Also, remember the "temperature" is a blackbody temperature, not temperature in the same sense as matter has temperature.

 

And finally, even without CMBR, absolute zero is not even theoretically possible. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero

[devrimci_kürt]

Degree - English

1. A unit division of a temperature scale.

2. A unit of latitude or longitude, equal to 1/360 of a great circle.

3. Relative intensity or amount, as of a quality or an attribute: a high degree of accuracy.

 

And it doesn't stop there.

 

thanks

Unfortunately there is not enough references in Turkish (in english-turkish dictionary)

[NowThatWeKnow]

thanks

Unfortunately there is not enough references in Turkish (in english-turkish dictionary)

 

Google found many online dictionaries. This on is not too bad.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/

Wikipedia has too much info sometimes.

[Airbrush]

I wouldn't think so. CMBR would necessarily be more or less the same everywhere in the universe, if current theories aren't totally wrong. It's not a local effect. Check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background_radiation

 

Also, remember the "temperature" is a blackbody temperature, not temperature in the same sense as matter has temperature.

 

And finally, even without CMBR, absolute zero is not even theoretically possible. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero

 

If there were no atoms in a region of space then I think that region of space would be absolute zero, unless there can be some heat from light radiation passing through the void. We just cannot see anywhere that there are NO ATOMS. Atoms are everywhere. Do we know the real density of space in the middle of a great voids? Beyond our visual horizon there may be totally empty regions of space where even regions as large as millions of light years across contain zero atoms. In those totally empty areas it should be absolute zero. Why not?

[Baby Astronaut]

Airbrush, subatomic particles are still popping in and out of existence in all of space. At least according to calculations.

[Royston]

If there were no atoms in a region of space then I think that region of space would be absolute zero, unless there can be some heat from light radiation passing through the void. We just cannot see anywhere that there are NO ATOMS. Atoms are everywhere. Do we know the real density of space in the middle of a great voids? Beyond our visual horizon there may be totally empty regions of space where even regions as large as millions of light years across contain zero atoms. In those totally empty areas it should be absolute zero. Why not?

 

There's no such thing as a true void, i.e what isn't permeated by an EM or gravitational field. So called 'voids' have been observed, but they're still effected, even by an infinitesimal amount by EM fields, let alone gravitational and expansion.

 

Absolute zero, would imply all sorts of horrible things, that have been experimentally verified as not existing.

 

You simply can't have one rule of physics applied to one patch of the Universe, and not to another. It begs the question, how can we model extreme conditions in the Universe, but this one patch breaks down all the laws of physics as we know it. Or, these voids, are subject to the same laws as we've observed and predicted, it's just we're overlooking a small detail. Surely it's the latter ? With the assumption that a true void has been possibly viewed, as you stated.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Snail

[Baby Astronaut]

Yeah, calculations of gravity stretch to infinity. Although I didn't imagine gravity as a space "filler" in the same manner as particles.

 

Absolute zero, would imply all sorts of horrible things, that have been experimentally verified as not existing.

What kind of horrible things?

[Sisyphus]

Another, simpler reason there could never be anything at absolute zero is that there is nowhere that is completely dark.

[Klaynos]

You NEED particles to have a temperature, it's part of the definition.

[NowThatWeKnow]

You NEED particles to have a temperature, it's part of the definition.

 

So if you put a thermometer in a true void, it would not longer be a true void?

[NeonBlack]

So if you put a thermometer in a true void, it would not longer be a true void?

 

[Klaynos]

What type of thermometer?

 

Once we're talking about temps like this measurement methods have to be very precisely explained.

 

But you will NEVER get absolute zero, there are several reasons why it's an impossible target...

[NowThatWeKnow]

What type of thermometer?...

 

Is there a thermometer that is not made of "particles"?

I was just having fun saying you could not measure the temperature of a true void because it would not be a true void if something was there to measure it. I think some are implying that this "true void" may be outside of our universe. I am not disagreeing with you.

[Sisyphus]

The point is a hypothetical "void" would not have a temperature of absolute zero, it would not have a temperature at all.

[NowThatWeKnow]

The point is a hypothetical "void" would not have a temperature of absolute zero, it would not have a temperature at all.

 

That being said, would you take a coat or t-shirt if you were going to visit this hypothetical "void"?

[Sisyphus]

That being said, would you take a coat or t-shirt if you were going to visit this hypothetical "void"?

 

You can't visit a void and have it still be a void.

[D H]

What type of thermometer?

This is a key question. Suppose we use a spaceship as a thermometer. (We use a real thermometer to measure the temperature of the skin of the spaceship.) The interstellar and intergalactic medium can be extremely hot: millions of Kelvins hot. So, what temperature would our spaceship/thermometer read if it were placed in this warm/hot medium, far from any star?

 

The answer: 2.725 Kelvin. While the interstellar medium looks like a gas at the scale of a cubic light year or so, (1000s of cubic light years for the intergalactic medium), there is essentially nothing there to transfer any heat to our hypothetical spaceship/thermometer. The spaceship/thermometer would come to thermal equilibrium with the cosmic microwave background radiation, not the local medium.

[Airbrush]

The point is a hypothetical "void" would not have a temperature of absolute zero, it would not have a temperature at all.

 

Everything has a temperature. A hypothetical total void, that has no atoms at all, and is beyond the visual horizon of all matter, over 14 Billion LY from the nearest atom, so there are not even any stars seen, that void would be black and be absolute zero. It would also be without time because space-time cannot exist without matter. It would not be space-time, it would only be timeless space, until that region is impinged upon by a local big bang, then the clock starts again.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Airbrush