Do you take the red pill or the blue pill? Is ignorance bliss? Is the truth better?

[CHAOS]

I know I said I wouldn't be back, but I couldn't help my self. So, before we start, I just want to say, this does relate to science, it's like the good old particle-wave debate, the wave theory challanges our whole understanding of matter, and the universe, so we have a hard time accepting this at first, but eventually, the truth will prevail, eventually. So, lets just assume for a moment that the reality you live in is lie, you have been lied to your whole life, and not much is really what it seems, your leaders, your economy, your technology, your understanding of the universe and the life that inhabits it, and even the origin of our species. Now, someone comes along, and shows you all these things are false realities, they even provide endless proof of what is going on. Would you chose to believe them, or would you chose to ignore him, and continue living in blissful arrogance and ingnorance? Can you handle the Earth shaking information that challanges your whole paradigm, can you handle the fact that your "superiors" have been lying to you your whole life, do you even start to examine the evidence he has put forth, or do you just escape his "nonsense", disregarding it in any way possible, to avoid reshaping your mind? Are you calm and stable in avoiding any shocking new truth, or, do you seek truth, no matter how shocking it may be? Do you take the red pill or the blue pill?

 

Now, we all know this has to do with my recent thread which was closed for no apparent reason, but here are a few reasons I have had from other forums that do the same thing: "this is a contreversial topic, and people are getting hot under the collar.", "we don't know enough about other life in the Universe to talk about it.", "this is a science forum, not a conspiracy theory forum." etc etc. They are very invalid and unlogical. People are getting hot under the collar? The conversation was going fine, between a small amount of people sensible enough to talk about it intelligently, but apparently lots of people were reporting it...for God knows what. We don't know enough? How the hell are we ever going to know if we can't even talk about it? This is a science forum, not a conspiracy forum? Well, this one makes me the most angry, I really can't see anything much more important to man kind than the existance of other intelligent life in our Universe, especially if they are visiting us and if our origin is linked to them. The implifications are enormous, and this is the very heart of the problem, science totally shrugs off the enormous amount of evidence, and the topic is no more than laughed and giggled at, it is the subject of instant ridicule, mockery, and skepticism, which is fair, but only to a certain extent. The mockery of the subject goes so far, that it is taken seriously only by a minute, few intellects. Their most powerful tool are those who treat the subject in such a way, with total disrespect and mockery. Which pill have they taken?

 

Morpheus: "You've been living in a dream world, Neo."

Morpheus: "This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."

Edited February 4, 2009 by CHAOS

[padren]

I don't make all life decisions scientifically, nor does anyone completely. However, when having a discussion within a scientific framework you have to apply some scientific rigors.

 

Since this is a science minded forum even when other topics are discussed it's generally within the context of what one can demonstrate factually and with consistent logic without requiring a large number of assumptions.

 

 

Personally I find the format very refreshing when it comes to online discussion boards, due to the sheer number of theories and ideas out there they become a blanket of white noise that never goes away in most places.

 

 

As far as your question - I always welcome new evidence. I won't believe someone telling me this or that about the way they think the world is, but I'll look at the world and if it challenges some preconceptions all the better.

The fact is I've had people telling me "how it really is" and to "open my eyes" for my entire life as far back as I can remember. I can say with absolute certainty that most if not all completely inaccurate as they are generally contradictory.

 

As such, I don't make assumptions about how the world around me is one way or another unless I see reasons to in the world around me. When it comes to some other aspects of life I take a very non-scientific approach. When it comes to friendships and recreation and such, I am pretty impulsive and I certainly don't need "proof" that a beer is good before I try it. But when it comes to ideas regarding how the world works there are too many of them not to employ some reasonable methods to cut down the white noise.

[CHAOS]

Yes, yes, I can see where you are coming from, there is so much, from so many places, you never know what may be true, and I do throw in a lot of assumptions, with out much backing, but I only really want to prove one thing. Aliens exist and visit Earth. All my other coclusions are based on maliscious research, study and analysis. For instance, my coclusion that our species is an Alien hybrid, the product of extreme genetic engineering is because, our fossils, and even our own DNA show very strong evidence of artificial manipulation. My conclusion about Alien existence comes from the extremely vast amount of people, which include hundreds, if not thousands, of high status individuals, who believe they have seen Aliens or the secret Government documents verifying Alien existence, and the vast amount of public and Governmet footage from all around the world. There is no doubt in my mind, I am sure of it. I'm also almost as certain, that the Government is hiding advanced technologies that could stop the destruction of the Earth, where do you think all the energy in our universe came from in the first place? The zero-point vacuum of nothingness! They are just so freaking greedy, they make billions, if not trillions, from the current methods of producing and selling power, while they run massive underground infastructure on free energy, without paying a cent. They even have crafts that utilize anti-gravity, people have reported seeing such craft, before going to hospital with major radiation burning, I'm not sure if they stopped this excess release of radiation by now, but these occurences weren't to long ago. So, how will the masses handle this information? What pill would they take?

 

So, back to the point, my examination of the NASA footage utilized consistant logic and scientific analysis, but it instantly got closed, for no apparent reason. It was free of assumptions, it was straight to the point, and clearly showed my scientific reasoning, which was quickly ridiculed with one scientifically void response, before being closed, and this is what I'm getting at, I used science, as we are on a science forum, I presented my case as logically as possible, yet, it was closed, conversation and discusion was cut off instantly! Oooh, look, he's talking about Aliens on a science website, BANG, CLOSED SUCKER, implemention of the blue pill is successful, case closed, as you were. What the hell? Can we not have an civilized conversation here?!? I just want to be able to talk about it, it IS infact science, well pseudoscience, so for all that's good and right in the world, let us speak God damn you!!!

Edited February 4, 2009 by CHAOS
Consecutive posts merged.

[padren]

First of all, those videos aren't exactly compelling evidence. I didn't watch the 2nd two because I don't have a couple hours to spare going through them. I hadn't read the threads you referred to before, so I didn't comment on them - just the general question you posed.

 

Since this is really about a thread of yours that was closed - I am sure moderators have already told you - it's not a good idea to open threads complaining about closed threads. I'm not a moderator or anything, but I am pretty sure that is against the forum rules. The staff prefer private messages I think.

 

That said, many people have posted threads complaining about their threads being closed, some to the point they ended up suspended or banned because they kept doing it. I am pretty sure the community here would agree with me when I say even when it comes to banning/suspending it's preferable to what happens otherwise - a ton of people spamming the boards whenever they disagree with a moderator. Don't take it personally, it's not about you and there are lots of threads that get closed when a poster breaks certain rules.

 

Anyway, I'm not a mod, so those are just my personal thoughts as a member.

 

 

Regarding the first two videos: Calling those proof are an extreme stretch. I am not even sure what is supposed to be considered "UFOs" in the first one, and the second seems really silly. I can't say for sure without personally really digging deep into every spatial factor but I suspect the changing angle of light and relative position with regards to the sun could be a component. Keep in mind: They gather a lot of film in which nothing strange happens... if you had a job of filming random numbers all day, pretty soon you'd have some random number sequences that were very uncanny, but that is to be expected, not taken as proof of an underlying order. Plus what the fellow says about "the number of objects in space would make space travel impossible" is completely off his rocker. Either they are up close and tiny (where you expect ice) or they are larger and in a huge volume of space.

 

As for your other comments regarding cover ups etc... I'm not really interested in debating that, but I find the idea a bit of a stretch. I've debated that topic before and don't find anything new usually comes out of it, so I tend to pass on them in general.

 

Anyway, I do recommend you try to get a feel for how the community here does work, and why it does work the way it does a bit before getting upset about it not working the way you expect. Personally I find it an exceptionally great format, hence I come here a lot, even though it seemed a bit different at first.

[Baby Astronaut]

If you take the blue pill, what's to prevent you (due to memory loss) from seeking out the red pill again?

 

"we don't know enough about other life in the Universe to talk about it."

 

The statement above is valid. You're forgetting (maybe you took the blue pill) how science works. We all have our ideas on aliens. Many scientists do too. However, they only view/discuss science as things which have been tested or proven by scientific methods. It doesn't matter if everyone witnessed it or has photos -- if it hasn't been run through a lab and/or observed with extensive notes and verified the same way by others, it's not science.

 

Hence why you need to dispute this on a philosophy board or alien discussion forum. It's nothing personal against you, it's not a conspiracy, it doesn't matter if you were right, it's an honest attempt to keep science clean of "pollution" for lack of a better word. The evidence people have asked for is the type others can perform tests with, verify, document, sometimes indirectly with other methods of testing, and get the same exact results.

 

Impossible with government cover ups -- if there is one. But that discussion isn't a scientific one. Thus your dilemma.

[Klaynos]

Issues over closed threads should be taken up in pm with the mod who closed the thread or if you want to complain about their action another mod or admin. Having said that...

 

Threads are closed for a reason, creating a new one to lead where the last left off will not get you anywhere.

 

Thread closed.