Thinking makes you sad

[-Demosthenes-]

Oh, well I was pretty close then?

ANyway, do you think it could happen like that?

[Phi for All]

Oh' date=' well I was pretty close then?

ANyway, do you think it could happen like that?[/quote']I think there is a certain amount of experience needed in order to let those automatisms take over. If you need too much concentration to accomplish a certain task, I don't think you can slip into that "zone" as easily.

 

Due to another thread in the Theoretical Physics section of this Forum, I've been reading up on the Zero-Point Field, a theoretical field of tiny matter at its absolute lowest energy state that surrounds everything in the universe. I bring it up here in Pseudoscience because there are those who believe it is like this "zone" we are speaking about. One study described in Ode suggests it is possible to use the ZPF as a sort of sixth sense.

 

Could our "zone" and the ZPF be related?

[Glider]

Withdrawing your hand from a hotplate is a reflex. Reflexes are different to automatisms. Reflexes are hard-wired and universal to the species. You don't have to learn them, you are born with them.

 

Automatisms are learned behaviours, like riding a bike or playing a piano. With constant practice you can become extremely proficient at a motor task, to the point where it no longer requires conscious input once the behaviour has been initiated. This is why experienced pianists can hold a meaningful conversation whilst playing a piece with which they are familiar. Conscious input is only required to modify the action (e.g. increase/decrease tempo). However, even an expert pianist could not play a piece with which they were unfamiliar, and hold a conversation. One or other activity would suffer.

 

Most people who drive cars cars at some point will have had the experience of arriving at some point with no recollection of how they covered the last few miles. They have been thinking about other things, and all actions required to drive; gear changes, speed adjustments and steering were performed automatically. This does not happen to novice drivers.

 

Automatisms happen through a process of cerebellar learning and automatic processing. The cerebellum is responsible for motor skills learning. Once a particular skill has been learned (e.g. playing a scale), conscious input is only required to initiate the process. Once initiated, the motor action will continue until you provide the conscious signal to stop. Whilst the action is being performed, you monitor the results using very little conscious resource. In the case of playing scales, you don't need to look at your hands, you can hear the notes, even over a conversation. If the notes are correct, you notice very little, perhaps not even consciously registering the notes. However, if you hit an incorrect note, you are alerted and correct the action, which then continues automatically. This, with enough experience, you do without thinking.

[Tesseract]

Sometimes I do that when I have to copy something (long) down.I see the words and remember them then wite them on the page.But I lose track of ime and when I come to, im done but have no recolection of time spent.Wierd.

Is this the same thing or different?

[jordan]

Glider,

 

Since you mentioned it, the piano analogy happens to me all the time. When I have a song down well, I drift right off when I begin to play. What is interesting is that this is usually when people say it sounds the best. They like the expressiveness, but I can't remember a thing. With driving though, I wasn't driving for more than a month before that happened to me. Maybe the difference was that it was interstate driving, which is pretty mindless. It hasn't happened on any city roads, yet. That could be why.

[-Demosthenes-]

Sometimes I do that when I have to copy something (long) down.I see the words and remember them then wite them on the page.But I lose track of ime and when I come to, im done but have no recolection of time spent.Wierd.

Is this the same thing or different?

Hey, same here!

 

It's kind of weird how people can do that.

[Tesseract]

Hey' date=' same here!

 

It's kind of weird how people can do that.[/quote']

 

Yeah its probably common, especially after many years of school.Hmm.

Well at least it gets the job done.

[Glider]

Glider' date='

With driving though, I wasn't driving for more than a month before that happened to me. Maybe the difference was that it was interstate driving, which is pretty mindless. It hasn't happened on any city roads, yet. That could be why.[/quote']

 

Automaticity requires familiarity. It'll happen on city roads you become very familiar with, which means those close to where you live. You'll become so familiar with them that you will begin to navigate them automatically. This is why the majority of fender benders in which people are involved happen within about a half a mile of their houses. They get onto roads with which they are familiar and switch to 'autopilot'. Whilst the road layout remains more or less fixed, the contents unfortunately don't.

 

Sometimes I do that when I have to copy something (long) down.I see the words and remember them then wite them on the page.But I lose track of ime and when I come to' date=' im done but have no recolection of time spent.Wierd.

Is this the same thing or different?[/quote']

It's a different thing. I'm afraid that's just lack of concentration. It's not automatic, because you have to conasciously take in new information and then reproduce it. However, it is boring and monotonous, so your concentration will drift. Your brain is trying to go to 'automatic', but it can't as you need consciously to read a line, commit it to short-term memory and then reproduce it, repeatedly. This is why copying stuff by hand is so frustrating. It doesn't allow your brain to go fully on 'auto.'. It will try though, which is why you will not be able to remember a line you copied a few seconds ago. That and the interference due to placing a new line in short-term memory.

 

As an aside, because of the above, copying information from one page to another is not a good way to learn. If it is important that you learn whatever information you are copying, the best way to do that is to read a whole paragraph, then translate it into your own words. This is an excellent way to learn because it requires that you understand the information you are reading, which engages a whole series of deeper levels of processing.

[-Demosthenes-]

Would it be more likely that someone could swich to "auto-pilot" if they're tired or something like that??

[Tesseract]

Would it be more likely that someone could swich to "auto-pilot" if they're tired or something like that??

You mean switch conciously?

[aman]

There are practices like transcendental meditation that try to clear out the garbage between an action needed and the subconscious correct response.

If your connected properly in your head and you practice this discipline, sometimes people say it helps not only make right and timely decisions, it also helps with emotional health.

I recommend it just for the fact it sometimes works and also for a life experience experiment that can do no harm but add to your knowledge of what people might talk about in your future so you have a personal frame of reference.

Just aman

[Glider]

Would it be more likely that someone could swich to "auto-pilot" if they're tired or something like that??

Yes. Maintaining concentration is harder when you're tired and you're more likely to drift off into your own little world. This is why people find some repetetive tasks 'theraputic'. They don't have to think about doing them and so can get them done whilst thinking about other things.

[-Demosthenes-]

So I could maybe run for a long time and it would become automatic, then I don't have to think about it anymore. That would be weird for me.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

My thing is that I'll be reading, then automatically I'll get up to go to the bathroom. Halfway there, I snap out of it, and I'm not sure what I'm doing for a few seconds. Though it is convenient when I do homework.

Walking is automatic, and so is running, so why do you say that?

[Tesseract]

My thing is that I'll be reading' date=' then automatically I'll get up to go to the bathroom. Halfway there, I snap out of it, and I'm not sure what I'm doing for a few seconds. Though it is convenient when I do homework.

Walking is automatic, and so is running, so why do you say that?[/quote']

 

Do you then forget to go to the bathroom?

Seriously, how do you enter this automatism (or whatever) when your reading , are you not interested in the book?I would think that if you were reading you would be thinking about the words and thus not lapse into an automatism.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

When I read, I get absorbed. I don't think about it until I'm done (and that's really quick, considering how fast I read). Then I start to wonder and think and all that stuff.

 

No, I think I normally realize that I have to go to the bathroom...

[Dave]

My thing is that I'll be reading, then automatically I'll get up to go to the bathroom. Halfway there, I snap out of it, and I'm not sure what I'm doing for a few seconds.

 

Yeah, that happens to me quite a lot, although in my case it helps me to think about a particularly hard problem.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I also find it funny when I get up from dinner to get something, and then people tell me "When you got up to get..." and I don't remember doing it.

Sometimes its embarassing.

[Tesseract]

I also find it funny when I get up from dinner to get something' date=' and then people tell me "When you got up to get..." and I don't remember doing it.

Sometimes its embarassing.[/quote']

 

Are you sure your not just forgetfull?

[Tesseract]

When I read' date=' I get absorbed. I don't think about it until I'm done (and that's really quick, considering how fast I read). Then I start to wonder and think and all that stuff.

 

No, I think I normally realize that I have to go to the bathroom... [/quote']

 

When I read and its boring I just keep moving throught the lines but I dont remember any of it.I even forget if i read a page.It gets very frustrating...

[-Demosthenes-]

Oh man, that's happened to me. It's like I read it, but nothing went into my brain. When I read it again some of the words look familar but I didn't get any of the ideas or what was happening.

 

I think that the whole reason that we do this is because we are thinking about something else. When your thinking aobut something really hard and it's important maybe your brain is like "well, I don't think we'll bother him right now, I'll just do it be myself." Something like that.

[Tesseract]

Oh man' date=' that's happened to me. It's like I read it, but nothing went into my brain. When I read it again some of the words look familar but I didn't get any of the ideas or what was happening.

 

I think that the whole reason that we do this is because we are thinking about something else. When your thinking aobut something really hard and it's important maybe your brain is like "well, I don't think we'll bother him right now, I'll just do it be myself." Something like that.[/quote']

There has to be a name for this type of action too.I dont think its automatism.Any help?