salt water amphibians?

[insane_alien]

are you sure it got submitted because a few of mine have decided to go walkabout because i closed the window before it submitted properly.

[Mokele]

It didn't disappear, it was deleted. There were multiple threads on the topic in the deleted post, all of which were closed due to persistent fallacies. You have been told multiple times to take discussion of this theory elsewhere, as we're all sick of it and your shoddy method of arguing it.

 

The post that was deleted was a direct circumvention of mod action (closing threads). Do not try it again.

[swansont]

You do not have freedom of speech; that's a right some people have with respect to government censorship. We aren't the government. Your speech here must abide by the rules. You are free to say whatever you wish on your own website.

[Thelemaway]

I have recently moved to the beach. Recently, walking, stoned at night, I was shocked by the number of frogs on the beach. They were hanging out on the edge of the water. Or at least so I thought. It was dark. I was smoking. Maybe there are jumping crabs? Seems more likely than frogs in the sea.

 

There is, of course, one salt water amphibian, Rana cancrivora, the crab-eating frog. I was under the impression that this tiny frog lived in the mangrove swaps of the Mekong Delta. I studied it at University about five years ago. Well, I studied its kidney, or at least read about it.

I bought a torch and tonight had a good look. Yup, big fat yellow frogs jumping in and out of the water.

It turns out that I was wrong about several aspects of Rana cancrivora. I thought it was in Vietnamese, tiny and lived in swamps. It's not. It's big and lives at the bottom of my garden in Dumaguete.

Funny old thing, research.

[George Yates]

There are no truly marine species of marine amphibians alive today, but despite a lot of talk about how osmosis would dehydrate amphibians and draw water out of their bodies into the water, there was a group of Temnospondyl amphibians that adapted to a marine lifestyle.

They were called Trematosauroidea, and lived during the triassic. they were medium sized amphibians (around 1 to 2 metres long) and evolved a rather crocodilian form, with a long snout, broad tail and wedge-shaped head. They died out towards the end of the triassic.

 

There IS an extant species of frog that can tolerate salt water for a certain time, the crab-eating frog - although it prefers brackish water. Its tadpoles can remain in saltwater all the time.

[lemur]

Well, consider where you see flightlessness evolve: usually in situations where there's few predators or competitors. Insects returning to the ocean, on the other hand, would face intense competition, both from crustaceans and from larvae of other insects.

Why can't insects just swarm on the surface, with some getting caught by waves? Wouldn't this produce the conditions that would reward insects that survived being submerged, for example by being able to swim more quickly to the surface with wings that were better adapted to swimming? In time, couldn't this result in swimming ocean insects?

[Moontanman]

Why can't insects just swarm on the surface, with some getting caught by waves? Wouldn't this produce the conditions that would reward insects that survived being submerged, for example by being able to swim more quickly to the surface with wings that were better adapted to swimming? In time, couldn't this result in swimming ocean insects?

 

 

I think it's likely that crustaceans have the oceans dominated and insects have freshwater dominated but not to the extent that crustaceans have the oceans. Crustaceans have made inroads into freshwater and are quite common there, crustaceans have also taken up living on land but insects dominate the land similar to the way crustaceans dominate the oceans, insects in the ocean are rare but there are a few.

 

Possibly crustaceans evolved in the sea and insects evolved in freshwater?

 

http://cgi.unk.edu/hoback/marineinsects/home.html

[lemur]

I think it's likely that crustaceans have the oceans dominated and insects have freshwater dominated but not to the extent that crustaceans have the oceans. Crustaceans have made inroads into freshwater and are quite common there, crustaceans have also taken up living on land but insects dominate the land similar to the way crustaceans dominate the oceans, insects in the ocean are rare but there are a few.

 

Possibly crustaceans evolved in the sea and insects evolved in freshwater?

 

http://cgi.unk.edu/h...sects/home.html

This leads to a discussion even more interesting than the possibility of salt-water insects: flying crustaceans.

 

 

 

[Moontanman]

This leads to a discussion even more interesting than the possibility of salt-water insects: flying crustaceans.

 

 

That is an interesting idea, I am betting that crustaceans haven't been a big enough part of the land ecosystem long enough to have evolved flying.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Moontanman

[lemur]

That is an interesting idea, I am betting that crustaceans haven't been a big enough part of the land ecosystem long enough to have evolved flying.

Were flying fish then?

[Moontanman]

Were flying fish then?

 

If flying fish fly then so do some types of shrimp.

[lemur]

If flying fish fly then so do some types of shrimp.

Actually, I don't even know what flying fish do that warrants the title, "flying." The original Super Mario Brothers video game is the closest I've come to seeing actual flying fish. Do they just jump very high out of the water? Are there shrimp that jump out of water? This discussion is quickly degenerating into what could be accused of as hijacking, but I'm really curious now if shrimp can jump out of water. Even if they do, I don't see how this would make them prone to evolving wings and/or lungs. If anything, they would get eaten by birds easier . . . unless they were able to maneuvre using their tails . . . which could evolve into wings! (my belief in evolution has returned).

Edited January 6, 2011 by lemur

[Moontanman]

Actually, I don't even know what flying fish do that warrants the title, "flying." The original Super Mario Brothers video game is the closest I've come to seeing actual flying fish. Do they just jump very high out of the water? Are there shrimp that jump out of water? This discussion is quickly degenerating into what could be accused of as hijacking, but I'm really curious now if shrimp can jump out of water. Even if they do, I don't see how this would make them prone to evolving wings and/or lungs. If anything, they would get eaten by birds easier . . . unless they were able to maneuvre using their tails . . . which could evolve into wings! (my belief in evolution has returned).

 

 

For the most part flying fish glide, they can get quite high out of the water often landing on the decks of boats, they can glide a considerable distance. I've head them actually hit me, they are good bait, lol. Flying fish are not uncommon

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_fish

 

Flight measurementsIn May 2008, a Japanese television crew (NHK) filmed a flying fish (dubbed "Icarfish") off the coast of Yakushima Island, Japan. The creature spent 45 seconds in flight.[8] The previous record was 42 seconds.[8]

 

Flying fish can use updrafts at the leading edge of waves to cover distances of at least 400 m (1,300 ft).[5] They can travel at speeds of more than 70 kilometres per hour (43 mph).[6] Maximum altitude is 6 m (20 ft) above the surface of the sea.[7] Some accounts have them landing on ships' decks.[6][9]

 

They are also quite tasty.

 

The shrimp i was thinking about is really an amphipod, it comes out at night and escapes predators by jumping a couple meters into the air, a breeze can carry them several feet at least.

 

I love living near the ocean...