Denmark invests in electric cars

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http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10150716-54.html

 

Denmark has enlisted the help of California company "Better Place" to set up an electric car network based around a battery swapping program. Customers will be able to go to a number of charging stations deployed throughout the country and have their battery pack instantly swapped for a new one. This will allow the charging stations to charge batteries at non-peak hours, reducing peak demand the program would otherwise place on the electrical grid. Charging stations can work directly with utility companies to coordinate the system.

 

While I'm a big fan of electric cars I'm curious how they'll handle issues like damaged batteries. This is great for allaying consumer concerns over the lifetime of the battery packs and so forth, but I worry about the costs to the government.

 

That said, Denmark seems to be overcoming the hurdles required to get a practical electric car program in place, involving the energy companies in the process and mitigating the major concerns to consumers.

[SkepticLance]

Good to see. I am all in favour of electric cars.

The problem of damaged batteries is no longer a problem if people do not own them. If all the batteries are basically rented, and exchanged willy nilly, then the rent money pays for battery replacement as required.

 

A more important concern that I see is how to make sure enough electric power and power distribution is available. If the whole country goes electric, that would be a massive drain on both generation and distribution. Even if all charging is done at off peak times, that will only cover this change for up to a certain number of cars. After that, a lot more power is needed.

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A more important concern that I see is how to make sure enough electric power and power distribution is available. If the whole country goes electric, that would be a massive drain on both generation and distribution. Even if all charging is done at off peak times, that will only cover this change for up to a certain number of cars. After that, a lot more power is needed.

 

I think something novel about this approach is the utilities are able to directly monitor energy being used to charge batteries, as opposed to a plug-in hybrid approach where this gets mixed in with residential power.

 

Also, according to the article the energy providers are directly involved in the project, which further allows them to plan better.

 

The article says that right now Denmark has a surplus of energy which they aren't able to effectively store and end up selling to other countries. The battery charging stations will provide a useful way to store this energy.

[Pangloss]

Interesting... this could have WTO implications. It sounds like a government subsidy.

[CaptainPanic]

I'm very happy to see such an initiative. It's a great step forward, and will provide valuable experience which will ultimately make future investments cheaper.

 

Interesting... this could have WTO implications. It sounds like a government subsidy.

I don't understand your point.

So many things get government subsidy. Isn't that just normal and acceptable?

[Pangloss]

Government subsidies can be a violation of free trade agreements, depending on the exact effect. For example, when the EU gave Airbus completion money for the A380 project, and the US sued them in world court (or the eight or ten times the EU has sued the US in world court over Boeing tax subsidies).

[CaptainPanic]

Government subsidies can be a violation of free trade agreements, depending on the exact effect. For example, when the EU gave Airbus completion money for the A380 project, and the US sued them in world court (or the eight or ten times the EU has sued the US in world court over Boeing tax subsidies).

 

Ahh, I see.

But doesn't that mean that apparently the US and EU have some trade agreement about the free market for airplane sales?

 

There exist many markets which are not opened up, and where trade barriers (import taxes) are still in place, or where government subsidies influence sales. The entire food market is one example. Why else do Europeans eat European food (when it's produced at half the price in other continents)? The sustainable energy market is another one.

 

And anyway, I believe that we're talking about the construction of infrastructure here, which is often a national business.

[Pangloss]

Ahh, I see.

But doesn't that mean that apparently the US and EU have some trade agreement about the free market for airplane sales?

 

There is a specific airplane-related agreement dating from 1992, but most of the complaints revolve around the basic rules of the WTO, to which both the EU and the US are members.

[CaptainPanic]

There is a specific airplane-related agreement dating from 1992, but most of the complaints revolve around the basic rules of the WTO, to which both the EU and the US are members.

 

I guess that there's a small army of lawyers that work full time to resolve disagreements like this then

I know of so many disputes regarding import tax, concerning every-day goods and services. It seems that regardless of rules and regulations, there is always somebody complaining about them too.

[ParanoiA]

Ever since I heard the battery swapping idea I've liked it. Makes the most sense and seems to compliment our low patience, low disciplined nature. No need to obsess over charging time.

[CaptainPanic]

Ever since I heard the battery swapping idea I've liked it. Makes the most sense and seems to compliment our low patience, low disciplined nature. No need to obsess over charging time.

 

It might also make it easy to have a dedicated battery recycling center, which needs a different technology and possibly has different hazards than a scrapheap. More advantages.

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A related story: scientists at MIT are working on ultra-fast-charging lithium ion batteries:

 

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/03/lithium-breakthrough-could-charge-batteries-in-10-seconds.ars