Theophrastus Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 With a little thought, I made a sudden epiphany recently, in noticing that ammonium chloride (NH4Cl), can actually be split into two separate chemicals, NH3, and HCl. I thought of various methods, how this can be done, however, in ionising, the salt does not form the compounds above, but rather ammonium ion (NH4+) and chlorine ion (Cl-). Is there any way perhaps, to coerce this salt to decompose in the compounds described above, and how can this be done, without having the two products react, to form ammonia salt again. Any ideas?
Theophrastus Posted March 18, 2009 Author Posted March 18, 2009 Thank you for the most needed information, however, upon decomposition, would not the products, simply react with one another to form ammonium chloride again? Is there perhaps any way of isolating the individual chemicals?
max.yevs Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 interesting problem electrolysing probably won't work, it will probably get you 2NH4Cl > 2NH3 + H2 + Cl2
UC Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 interesting problemelectrolysing probably won't work, it will probably get you 2NH4Cl > 2NH3 + H2 + Cl2 BAD idea. This nets you NCl3, a very powerful, dangerous, and unstable compound. Think NI3, but liquid and not safe when wet. You can get one or the other out, but not both at once. Either use H2SO4 for the HCl or use NaOH solution for the NH3.
max.yevs Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 oh, right... thats how NI3 is made... so not only would it not work, but unless you keep the chlorine and ammonia seperate, youll get dangerous chloramines Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedin fact thats the main way to produce NCl3 nowadays http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ni3/ni3c.htm i should probably learn a bit more chemistry before suggesting such ideas
Theophrastus Posted March 19, 2009 Author Posted March 19, 2009 It decomposes that way if you heat it. Thank you, I was simply making sure, however, I was thinking, what is the precise decomposition temperature for NH4Cl, because I was thinking, that if there is enough of a range between the boiling points of its two components, ammonia, and HCl, I suppose I could funnel the ammonia, into water, where it would dissolve, forming an ammonia solution, (hopefully) leaving the HCl, in the previous flask. Something along the lines of a basic distillation. Any thoughts?
John Cuthber Posted March 19, 2009 Posted March 19, 2009 As sson as you let it cool it makes NH4Cl again. I guess that in theory you could do this in a gas centrifuge or something and separate the gases but there really are easier ways to get NH3 and HCl.
Theophrastus Posted March 19, 2009 Author Posted March 19, 2009 Such as? (He says with a hopeful tone)
max.yevs Posted March 20, 2009 Posted March 20, 2009 well you could always get HCl by reacting NH4Cl with a stronger acid, i.e. H2SO4, but then you might as well use table salt instead of ammonium chloride... you can get NH3 by reacting NH4Cl with almost any base, i.e. react it with baking soda to make ammonium carbonate, which decomposes with only a little heat...
max.yevs Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) ok guess i cant argue, just thought it would work i know i've got quite carried away with posting recently, despite not knowing much chemistry Edited March 24, 2009 by max.yevs
UC Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 you know, actually, if you gently electrolyse, the ammonia produced at the cathode can dissolve back into the water faster than it is generated. i think ammonia dissolves easier then chlorine, since Cl2 exists in equilibrium with HCl and HOCl... but at worst for every two steps forward of seperating NH4Cl, you'll be taking one step back of reformulating it... this will eventually give you NH4OH solution, with a trace of NH4Cl... But thats basically the NH3 part... the gases that do escape will be hydrogen and chlorine (with some ammonia and oxygen)... you can collect them and a match or spark will turn them back into hydrogen chloride... with some ammonium chloride, water, and NCl3:eek:... you can leave it as HCl or maybe bubble it into water to get hydrochloric acid... But thats basically the HCl part. Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedactually i guess NH3 also exists in equilibrium with NH4OH... none the less, you can use even a very slight difference in solubility to seperate them... and you can, for example, put one electrode in the bottom of the solution, and one almost on the surface, so that one of these- Cl2 or NH3- can dissolve easier... and the ammonium chloride produced would just be electrolysed again... only thing is that if you let chlorine dissolve, you would also get HOCl with the HCl... i dont know if they are easy to seperate... At least half of this is nonsense. If you electrolyze NH4Cl, you will make plenty of NCl3. Any NCl3 at all is too much. End of discussion, unless you'd like someone to seriously hurt themselves trying any of this.
John Cuthber Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 "actually i guess NH3 also exists in equilibrium with NH4OH" Not to any meaningful extent. As far as I'm aware nobody has come up with any evidence for the existence of NH4OH.
JamesM Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 Have found a research paper where Ammonium Chloride is separated to HCl.H20, and NH4OH using Activated carbon, Im looking for a method of Separating the ammonia hydroxide and water??
John Cuthber Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 As far as I'm aware nobody has come up with any evidence for the existence of NH4OH.
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