Pope to Africa: Don't use condoms

[john5746]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iLJ2gzRRfTYc_YuS7r1yuwnmne-gD970K3CG0

 

This article is a comedy and tragedy.

 

The Pope wants to run away from modernity, while criticizing other superstitious beliefs.

[swansont]

"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," he said. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."

 

One really shouldn't lie about such things. Especially if one promotes one's self as a moral leader, and promoting the lie will end up killing people.

 

The number that PZ Myers quotes is an 80% reduction being associated with condom use.

 

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/the_pope_is_an_evil_quack.php

[visceral]

**** the Pope.

 

If a bunch of kids created a whole church around their invisible friend in the playground, would anyone take them seriously?

 

Nope, and the pope is no different, except more powerful.

[iNow]

Why do you guys always bash religion? I just don't understand.

 

If that is what the pope believes, you should respect it.

 

 

 

What an unbelievably dumbass thing to say. Note to self: Christianity will be dead much sooner than I thought. Update your calendar.

[Dudde]

Does the Pope lead christianity? I've been out of the loop longer than I thought.

 

This is very funny, and while I saw it on some national news, it makes me writhe in laughter and cry for humanity

[Daecon]

Benedict said that while the Catholic church in Africa is the fastest growing in the world, it faces competition from increasingly popular evangelical movements and "the growing influence of superstitious forms of religion."

 

I wish hypocrisy was terminal.

[1nc4rnation]

Even smart people say and do ignorant things.

A pope, while a highly vaunted figure of authority, is merely another human being.

 

In the face of a cultural meritocracy that seeks to solve real, pressing problems, the fact that we are all bound by our endless ignorance becomes painfully clear.

[Sisyphus]

I'm just wondering what his rationale is. I could actually see if he thought that recreational sex is inherently immoral and therefore can't be encouraged no matter what the tangible cost. (I'd think it was stupid, but I couldn't really argue with a moral judgement.) But that's not what he's saying, right? He's saying his way is pragmatically preferable, as well, and that's an objective statement. Presumably he thinks that 1) the only way to reverse the spread of AIDS is if everyone is sexually monogamous for life 2) this is a realistic goal, and 3) the availability of other methods like birth control can only delay it. Presumably he also has no empirical evidence for any of these things (since none exists), which is a shame, since it's contrary to the Catholic Church's recent (more recent than Galileo) policy of not directly challenging science on objective reality. For example, they acknowledge the fact of evolution, and consider creationism a "pagan belief."

[Kaeroll]

What an ass.

 

His beliefs on contraception aside - to claim abstinance programs are successful is an outright lie (I don't have figures to hand, but I do recall reading studies showing that they have little to no effect). Is the agenda of pushing Catholicism so important that people must die for it?

 

The issue of AIDS' method of transmission is controversial enough in some parts of the world without Darth Sidious weighing into things.

[padren]

I'm just wondering what his rationale is. I could actually see if he thought that recreational sex is inherently immoral and therefore can't be encouraged no matter what the tangible cost. (I'd think it was stupid, but I couldn't really argue with a moral judgement.) But that's not what he's saying, right? He's saying his way is pragmatically preferable, as well, and that's an objective statement.

 

I think he means if everyone just followed the perfect Catholic model to the letter and were always virgins when they married for life less people would die from AIDs than any other solution not based on the perfect Catholic model involving the use of condoms.

 

 

As for a practical reasoning... I wouldn't hold my breath.

[pioneer]

There is a big push in culture to go "green" or return to natural ways of doing things to restore natural balance. As far as I know, condoms are not a product of the earth but of a factory. Without condoms, in the light of certain behavior, nature has, through evolution, generated "natural" or green diseases based on the environments created by behavior. There is a cause and effect with these diseases only appearing and spreading due to certain behavior and the conditions they create.

 

This behavior can be supported using artificial compensation, even if in a "green" or natural environment, that same behavior would result in a thinning of the herd. The pope is for all green, with selective advantage going to those who can adapt to this natural change in the environment without requiring artificial. One would not be vulnerable to nature's green herd thinning reaction, if they chose certain green behavior that are in harmony with nature.

 

The question becomes what types of behavior would allow selective advantage without artificial additives so we can stay green? If we need a study, take away all the artificial, or things that the earth does not provide naturally, for a control group. Next, we will let nature take her course and see who is left. Then we can correlate the behaviors that gave the most natural selective advantage. We will call this natural evolution.

[Sisyphus]

Um, I'm pretty sure the Pope's problem with birth control has nothing to do with condom litter.

[iNow]

+1. That whole conjecture seems like one great big off-topic attempt to save face.

[jake.com]

It seems outrageous that the pope would blatantly lie about such things. I liked John Paul II better anyway.

[Daecon]

It seems outrageous that the pope would blatantly lie about such things.

No, it doesn't.

[Sayonara]

Do you mean it doesn't seem outrageous, or do you mean it doesn't seem unlikely?

[iNow]

Well, he's not exactly a pillar of consistency and rationality.

 

 

I found humor in this... The pope is right now, in Africa, speaking out against superstition.

 

ROTFL.

 

 

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/pope_caught_mining_irony_in_af.php

The Pope is on a grand tour of Africa, where he has been striking up a theme of — brace yourself — opposing superstition. The man who heads an institution with an

official top exorcist

is asking Africans to "

shun witchcraft

", and to reject fear-mongering talk of evil entities…

In his homily, he urged his listeners to reach out to those Angolans who believe in witchcraft and spirits. "So many of them are living in fear of spirits, of malign and threatening powers. In their bewilderment they even end up condemning street children and the elderly as alleged sorcerers," he said.

 

Right. Don't believe in malign spirits, like, say

Satan

. Has the Pope become an atheist lately?

 

Oh, I guess not. He's still demanding that people believe in supernatural occult powers that have battled and defeated other supernatural occult powers.

In his homily, the pope urged Catholics to try to persuade those who had left the Church that "Christ has triumphed over death and all those occult powers."

If only they would turn their powers of skepticism, critical thought, and rejection of unfounded supernatural phenomena on themselves, the Vatican would implode overnight.

[DrDNA]

There are almost a billion people in Africa and about 135 million Catholics.

The Catholics are the only ones that will possibly listen to the pope 'at all'.

 

How many of those 135 million Catholics are infected with AIDS virus?

I would guess that the percentage is smaller than the general population, but would certainly entertain numbers if someone has them handy.

[magi13]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iLJ2gzRRfTYc_YuS7r1yuwnmne-gD970K3CG0

 

This article is a comedy and tragedy.

 

The Pope wants to run away from modernity, while criticizing other superstitious beliefs.

 

I'll play the devils advocate.

 

Let's put the two views into focus.

 

Benedict told reporters on his flight Tuesday to Cameroon that a responsible and moral attitude toward sex would help fight the disease.

"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," he said. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."

 

1. Condoms help prevents HIV is this true?

 

2. Good morals and proper restraint with spiritual guidance can prevent aids?

 

With respect to 1. both parties, should practice safer sex. since once in awhile condoms do break and from oral sex.

 

With respect to 2. if we practice control and restraint then we abstain sex if we know our partner does have aids.

 

Third view. Both 1 and 2 have loopholes. If we apply both hand in hand, (with out the spiritual thing >.< or with it if you are a believer) I think the answer is to practice safe sex and be responsible. :3

 

Hope I made sense.

[jake.com]

Do you mean it doesn't seem outrageous, or do you mean it doesn't seem unlikely?

 

I mean it's surprising and angering that a religious leader would make it seem as if condoms increase the chance of contracting HIV.

[Sayonara]

I was asking Transdecimal, because he replied to you with "No, it doesn't", which was somewhat ambiguous.

[Daecon]

It's not surprising.

 

Typical Christian behaviour. If the facts contradict religious doctrine, then ignore and distort the facts.

[jake.com]

It's not surprising.

 

Typical Christian behaviour. If the facts contradict religious doctrine, then ignore and distort the facts.

 

That's profiling. Not all Christians are this way. The only thing that I really think is especially foolish of Christians is the way they try to disprove evolution. Some even try to disclaim the dinosaurs. I love dinorsaurs .

[bob000555]

Benedict said that while the Catholic church in Africa is the fastest growing in the world, it faces competition from increasingly popular evangelical movements and "the growing influence of superstitious forms of religion."

Speaking of which(or should i say witch ha ha ha no thats not funny at all):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1546500823932425961

This stuff makes Catholisim seem realtivly tame.

[cameron marical]

. Condoms help prevents HIV is this true

 

no. its not.

 

now im not defending any religions, but i know that wearing a condom doesnt do squat to preventing hiv. in latex there is small holes, wich increase in size once stretched. these holes are small enough to stop any spermatoid cells from slipping through, but hiv is much smaller than sperm. hiv can slip through. wearing condoms dont increase the chance of hiv at al, and saying that was quite stupid, but they dont do much on preventing it either.

 

as for the rest of the article. i agree with most of you guys, it is essentially popularity suicide to do what he did. yet it was for a good cause, just the totally wrong action.