Engineering.

[Math Princess]

Hello everybody.

 

I am facing a difficulty at this point of my life, and this place crossed my mind as a proper one to seek answers for my questions since it has all the experts

 

Ever since I was a little girl I loved mathematics and it has been my favorite subject ever since and so I’ve always wanted unquestionably to become an architectural engineer because I believed it is the most filed in engineering which requires understanding in mathematics. A couple of months ago I discovered that it doesn’t (too late and stupid eh?), some of the courses in college may need some understanding in math but generally it doesn’t, and after graduating and having a job as an architect you will deal less and less with math…

 

I was confused and still am …

 

I asked everyone I know who might have an answer, went to colleges myself and asked… but colleges only promoted for themselves and the people didn’t give me straight answers or more likely the answers to the questions I asked…

 

Not intending to bore you any longer; here are my questions;

Which field of engineering requires pure difficult mathematics the most?!

Where an architect does stands between the engineers?

And why some books and websites don’t acknowledge architectural engineer as a real engineer?

 

HELP!

I hate feeling confused and not knowing what I thought I knew.

 

And please don’t hesitate to make any suggestions of yours or recommendations.

 

 

I am sorry for my bad English and please forgive me if I posted this in the wrong place but it seemed the most suitable one for my question.

 

 

Thanks

[CaptainPanic]

Hello everybody.

 

I am facing a difficulty at this point of my life, and this place crossed my mind as a proper one to seek answers for my questions since it has all the experts

 

Ever since I was a little girl I loved mathematics and it has been my favorite subject ever since and so I’ve always wanted unquestionably to become an architectural engineer because I believed it is the most filed in engineering which requires understanding in mathematics. A couple of months ago I discovered that it doesn’t (too late and stupid eh?), some of the courses in college may need some understanding in math but generally it doesn’t, and after graduating and having a job as an architect you will deal less and less with math…

 

I was confused and still am …

 

I asked everyone I know who might have an answer, went to colleges myself and asked… but colleges only promoted for themselves and the people didn’t give me straight answers or more likely the answers to the questions I asked…

 

Not intending to bore you any longer; here are my questions;

Which field of engineering requires pure difficult mathematics the most?!

Two, three fields spring to mind:

- applied maths was one of the faculties at my university (edit: which was a technical university, educating only engineers).

- aerospace engineering in general contains lots of maths (a lot of funky aerodynamics, but other fields in that study are also full of math I think)

- systems control (which can be studied in several fields/faculties: chemical engineering, aerospace engineering to name a few)

 

Where an architect does stands between the engineers?

The "civil engineer" is the one who makes sure that things don't collapse. So this is a field where engineering meets architecture.

And why some books and websites don’t acknowledge architectural engineer as a real engineer?

Because drawing a nice building without any calculations doesn't count as engineering? I think you already answered the question yourself. In the Netherlands the architect is an engineer.

HELP!

I hate feeling confused and not knowing what I thought I knew.

 

And please don’t hesitate to make any suggestions of yours or recommendations.

 

 

I am sorry for my bad English and please forgive me if I posted this in the wrong place but it seemed the most suitable one for my question.

 

 

Thanks

Hope that helped. Ask more if you want. We're all here voluntarily to answer good questions such as these. I'm sure others will also add their views.

[cameron marical]

Because drawing a nice building without any calculations doesn't count as engineering? I think you already answered the question yourself. In the Netherlands the architect is an engineer.

 

why not? it may seem more simpleminded and easy to do that, more art than thought, but thats still engineering. engineering is making things right?, so, why would that not be considered engineering?

and architectual engineering is more than just drawing on a peice of paper anyways...

[tvp45]

I'd look at applied mechanics or fluid dynamics.

[waitforufo]

Electrical engineering particularly specializing in digital signal processing. The mathematics in this area will include both control theory and communication theory.

[Math Princess]

and architectual engineering is more than just drawing on a peice of paper anyways...

Then what is it exactly?!

 

 

And CaptainPanic;

 

I used to think that architectural engineering is a “better” field than civil engineering because civil engineers are the ones to do the work at the construction places while architects design the projects in the first place, and of course designing the projects needs understanding in math or else everything is going to collapse. So architects are the engineers and artists at the same time. That used to be my view and I am not sure if it’s still….

 

Is there any chance I am confusing architecture for civil engineering?

Is the following true: Engineer + Artist = Architect ?! How much percentage of each?

 

As for Electrical engineering; as far as I know it has more physics than Math in it.

 

 

Thanks to you all, I appreciate it, I will have to research the fields you mentioned and learn more about them.

 

If you have anything more, please don’t hesitate to let me know.

[mrburns2012]

As for Electrical engineering; as far as I know it has more physics than Math in it.

 

If you're trying to avoid physics at all cost, engineering might be a problem.

[CaptainPanic]

Because drawing a nice building without any calculations doesn't count as engineering? I think you already answered the question yourself. In the Netherlands the architect is an engineer.

why not? it may seem more simpleminded and easy to do that, more art than thought, but thats still engineering. engineering is making things right?, so, why would that not be considered engineering?

and architectual engineering is more than just drawing on a peice of paper anyways...

I don't know

As I wrote: in the Netherlands, architects are engineers.

I don't know if it's true that they do a lot less calculations and know less of math, but among the other students at the technical universities, it's rumored that architects have trouble in maths, and are generally more artists than engineers... Personally I never saw the work of an architect (although I obviously see the results every day: buildings).

 

Then what is it exactly?!

 

 

And CaptainPanic;

 

I used to think that architectural engineering is a “better” field than civil engineering because civil engineers are the ones to do the work at the construction places while architects design the projects in the first place, and of course designing the projects needs understanding in math or else everything is going to collapse. So architects are the engineers and artists at the same time. That used to be my view and I am not sure if it’s still….

 

Is there any chance I am confusing architecture for civil engineering?

Is the following true: Engineer + Artist = Architect ?! How much percentage of each?

 

As for Electrical engineering; as far as I know it has more physics than Math in it.

 

 

Thanks to you all, I appreciate it, I will have to research the fields you mentioned and learn more about them.

 

If you have anything more, please don’t hesitate to let me know.

First of all: I'm not working in construction, or even in architecture. I'm a chemical engineer and my work is to make chemical factories run clean, efficiently and profitable (and I work for sustainable energy and processes)... therefore my views here might require a doublecheck.

 

My view was that the architects design a building on paper. Then a civil engineer checks how to actually construct it (what materials, and how strong it all should be - also still on paper/computer). I thought that a civil engineer therefore does more calculations. Civil engineering is also a complete university study (BSc + MSc, and optional PhD).

This does not mean that an architect doesn't do this type of calculations too.

I believe that nowadays it is common that the beauty and functionality go hand in hand. Something that looks like a decoration is actually an essential part of the construction. This logically means that the fields are moving towards each other.

 

You know - when you're looking for a study, the whole world is in categories "Civil engineer", "architect", etc. Then when you finish the studies, and you start working, you find out that it's divided as clearly as you think.

 

I'd suggest that you make sure that you learn all the maths you need - and accept the consequence that you might not do as many drawings (art) as you might want. Then at a later stage, you just need to find the perfect job which has the right balance between nerdy calculations and art/design (which may or may not be hard, depending on your own qualities).

 

Finally, I'd like to say that there is only 1 reason why maths is as well developed today as it is: and the reason is physics. For a large part physics = maths. So if electrical engineering has physics in it, it automatically has maths. Also, the maths you'll need in other engineering fields are always applied to solve physics problems - engineers apply maths all the time to solve physics / chemistry / thermodynamics problems (and btw, all those fields have large overlaps - the real world doesn't have the nice categories).

Edited March 23, 2009 by CaptainPanic

[Math Princess]

I never said I am trying to avoid Physics nor I hate it. Actually Physics is my second favorite subject because it shares a lot of similarity with Mathematics. I prefer Math because 99% of it is dealing with numbers and equations, while 30% of Physics deals with “words” and scientific reasons which are not proven by numbers, personally I work better with numbers than words and based on this I am trying to organize my priorities; placing fields which have more to do with Math in the top of my list, then the ones which have to do with Physics, then Chemistry, and so on…

 

It would be very stupid not to know that Physics takes a huge part of engineering… I am not that much of an ignorant.

 

Of all the things you mentioned so far; Computational Science and Engineering sounds very interesting; I have been doing some investigation about it lately but until now I don’t understand what it is about exactly. As for Civil engineering it has been second on my list because it shares similarity with what I used to think of Architectural engineering.

 

Thanks everyone for your help. My main priority now is focusing on my grades in school, but I also want to have all the information needed for me to decide what exactly my study priorities are going to be.

[Klaynos]

I never said I am trying to avoid Physics nor I hate it. Actually Physics is my second favorite subject because it shares a lot of similarity with Mathematics. I prefer Math because 99% of it is dealing with numbers and equations, while 30% of Physics deals with “words” and scientific reasons which are not proven by numbers,

 

I'd say this is a failing in the education system. Physics is all about maths, in physics there is two things:

 

Mathematical predictive models.

Testing those models.

 

The words are there to try and help people who are less mathematically minded to understand what is going on, the are certainly not required or even desired in high level physics.

 

The below is based on comments my dad has made in the past, he works as a building surveyor...

 

Architects are pretty much just artists, with a bit of engineering but their primary concern is making it look nice... Where as civil engineers have to take the architects ideas and make sure the damn things don't fall down...

 

I'd have thought the easiest way to find what you're looking for (a 50:50 ish split) it to go down more the engineer route, as in my experience you're more likely to find an arty engineer than an engineering minded architect.

[Math Princess]

I'd say this is a failing in the education system. Physics is all about maths, in physics there is two things:

 

Mathematical predictive models.

Testing those models.

That’s what I’ve always said, but at the same time I thought it was just an excuse I use because I am terrible when it comes to memorizing facts, especially since, at least in this place, we are forced to memorize the information the exact way they were written in the books, which I think is a complete silliness. If we don’t they simply won’t consider the facts in our own words 100% accurate and that causes the loss of marks, it happened to me in the midterms. And that’s, again, why I prefer Math, because nobody can force me to memorize anything, it’s just numbers.... ...

 

Thanks again for all the information everyone is offering

[Kardia]

That’s what I’ve always said, but at the same time I thought it was just an excuse I use because I am terrible when it comes to memorizing facts, especially since, at least in this place, we are forced to memorize the information the exact way they were written in the books, which I think is a complete silliness. If we don’t they simply won’t consider the facts in our own words 100% accurate and that causes the loss of marks, it happened to me in the midterms. And that’s, again, why I prefer Math, because nobody can force me to memorize anything, it’s just numbers.... ...

 

Thanks again for all the information everyone is offering

 

 

That's the beauty of college physics, everything is described mathematically and you finally understand how someone get to those "formulas"

[CaptainPanic]

That’s what I’ve always said, but at the same time I thought it was just an excuse I use because I am terrible when it comes to memorizing facts, especially since, at least in this place, we are forced to memorize the information the exact way they were written in the books, which I think is a complete silliness. If we don’t they simply won’t consider the facts in our own words 100% accurate and that causes the loss of marks, it happened to me in the midterms. And that’s, again, why I prefer Math, because nobody can force me to memorize anything, it’s just numbers.... ...

 

Thanks again for all the information everyone is offering

 

Why memorize when you can either derive a formula or simply look it up?

 

Do you think that my boss gets angry at me when I "cheat" by looking up a formula because I'm not 100% sure I got it right in my head? I look up stuff every day... for work and also for posts on this forum.

 

I remember an exam at university where I failed to memorize the formulas. The teacher afterwards told me that I did too much work to derive all the formulas... But I had to do that to arrive at the ones I needed... I didn't remember the ones I needed in the exam. I still passed.

 

I've seen 2 types of engineers:

The ones who memorize it all. they usually lack in creativity and true understanding... but can be a walking encyclopedia. Great to have those as a colleague.

The ones who forget almost even their own name, but are very creative and will always exactly pinpoint the problem and solve that.

 

The second category are the ones who are good engineers for design work (imho), if you provide them with a secretary to tell them when their appointments are.

[Math Princess]

Why memorize when you can either derive a formula or simply look it up?

 

Do you think that my boss gets angry at me when I "cheat" by looking up a formula because I'm not 100% sure I got it right in my head? I look up stuff every day... for work and also for posts on this forum.

 

I remember an exam at university where I failed to memorize the formulas. The teacher afterwards told me that I did too much work to derive all the formulas... But I had to do that to arrive at the ones I needed... I didn't remember the ones I needed in the exam. I still passed.

 

I've seen 2 types of engineers:

The ones who memorize it all. they usually lack in creativity and true understanding... but can be a walking encyclopedia. Great to have those as a colleague.

The ones who forget almost even their own name, but are very creative and will always exactly pinpoint the problem and solve that.

 

The second category are the ones who are good engineers for design work (imho), if you provide them with a secretary to tell them when their appointments are.

 

Exactly!

 

But I wasn't speaking of memorizing formulas, those can memorized by practicing and using them in solving problems, but of course nobody is supposed to memorize a formula without understanding where it came from. I was speaking of questions where the question demands explanation of a certain fact or explanation of a theory or phenomenons... etc, if the answer for the question is in our books then we have to unquestionably write the answer the exact same way it came in the book or else they are going to cut our marks, maybe not put a zero for the question but cut two marks or so from the question's mark. I used my own words and even wrote formulas to give the "perfect answer", but that coasted me a lot of marks, especially since the Physics exam was very long which means more marks to cut from my answers. It didn't happen to me only, but to other people.

 

I even got a better grade in Biology which I totally suck at!

 

It drove me mad and I used words similar to the ones you are using now to object on how stupid the system is, I said the world doesn't need people who memorize facts and information, sometimes without understanding.... it was really stupid!

[VelocityGirl]

Hi Math Princess,

 

Mechanical engineering may be a good option for you. If you're concerned more so with maths than designing buildings you'd definitely enjoy it. I'm in my third year of a mechanical engineering degree and I'd say the majority of our classes have involved a fair bit of maths. There is a lot of physics too but it's usually pretty easy to see the applications of it, e.g. in mechanics of materials at the minute. In terms of "art", creativity is encouraged in our course and we have to do design projects, some of which include prototyping but ALL of which include concept sketching and CAD/Solidworks. It's all really about knowing what is possible in terms of the theory behind it and using that knowledge in maths, physics etc. to design products or adjust current products to be stronger, more efficient, etc. so just learning off formulae isn't really what it's all about (although in any field of engineering I'd say knowing that stuff by heart helps! )

 

Hope this helps. If you'd like to know anything else about mechanical engineering feel free to ask and I'll do my best to help

 

 

[CaptainPanic]

VelocityGirl

 

On behalf of the forum, thanks for the reply.

But I'm afraid that Math Princess has not been active on this forum since Apr 16, 2009.