Ghosts real?

[goldwing24]

I believe that they are fake and it is a bunch of bs. But I saw on the discovery channel a lot of ghosts story. Are these stories just made up for viewers? Well, there is a new movie the haunting is CT. http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.ap.org/horror-film-draws-unwanted-visitors-conn-house-ap Ed and Lorraine Warren, the researchers became famous for their discovery. People actually believe this?

[iNow]

I believe that they are fake and it is a bunch of bs.

Same here.

[goldwing24]

If it is fake then why does everyone believe that the researchers actually found something? They could have recored their voice and said it was a ghost

[Sayonara]

Because people will generally believe anything that is presented in a manner which is commensurate with their expectations.

[ajb]

I used to like watching some of the "ghost hunter" programmes. But they always end up being rubbish and ignoring the basic ethos of scientific experiments; results should be repeatable.

[Kaeroll]

Well... ghosts are real. There's no two ways about it. I'm being misleading, of course; what I mean is the term ghost refers to a phenomenon which is commonly explained as the spirits of the dead wandering around (where's Bill Murray when you need him?) (I hate quoting from Wikipedia... but... "A ghost is popularly held to be the disembodied spirit or soul of a deceased person")

 

I've seen a ghost, so I don't believe most people who see such things are making them up. The mind is easily fooled, especially by itself. I believe the term is pareidolia, and we've all experienced it when looking at clouds, Rorschach tests, etc. For whatever reason, humans have a tendency to see patterns in meaningless data.

 

What is "made up and a load of bs", and makes me angry, are cold-readers, who claim to be 'mediums' (surely the plural is media?) and able to speak to the dead. Types like Sylvia Brown, who take money from grieving families and give them nothing in return. On a ghost-hunting show here in the UK, a 'medium' named Derek Acorah was for a long time the resident medium. On the side, he toured the country giving so-called spiritualist performances. My girlfriend at the time attended one, and was utterly taken in by him. He was ultimately caught out when a skeptic on the show fed him a few fake names of people who had died in that week's location. (He was not meant to know where he was or anything about the place in advance). Shockingly enough he was later possessed by the spirit of Kreed Kafer (an anagram of Derek Faker) and subsequently dropped from the show.

 

(I realise much of that is tangential at best)

[wvbig]

I used to like watching some of the "ghost hunter" programmes. But they always end up being rubbish and ignoring the basic ethos of scientific experiments; results should be repeatable.

You obviously haven't watched "Ghost Hunters" recently & didn't pay very close attention when you did watch. They generally are able to debunk about 90% of the so-called "Paranormal activity" But last season they repeatedly asked an alleged entity to adjust the room temperature by specific amounts in both directions & according to their temperature gauges, the temperature changed accordingly. They also now have something they call a K2 Meter that flashes when there is supposed to be a spirit in front of it. Time after time, they ask a spirit to light it up & it does

[Sayonara]

Unless someone else can go in and independently observe the same effects, then those events are not scientifically credible. Not to mention the explanations themselves. Nobody has any idea what - if anything - a "spirit" is, yet somehow there is now a gizmo that detects them. What utter BS.

 

The most obvious explanation for the mysterious happenings is that having "debunked" 90% of their own show's material the producers need something spooky to keep the audience interested.

[ajb]

You obviously haven't watched "Ghost Hunters"...

 

by "ghost hunters" I simply meant one or any of the many generic programmes on the subject.

 

I have seen some, probably the "Ghost Hunters" (they were ex-plumbers?) that are better. They debunked most of the ghosts.

 

There was one, I cannot remember the exact name but they did find some "anomalies" in thermal imaging. However, these were not really investigated. I suspect (if the results were not faked) that they were down to internal effects of the cameras and/or products of how they were being used. A large part of sensor engineering is making sure you get the signals you are expecting.

 

There was no independent observations or "anomalies" recorded by any other means they employed.

 

Thus, the results are not really very scientific.

[YT2095]

as much as I hate having to bring it Right Down to the vulgar basics, Follow The Money!

and with TV shows it`s all about ratings and Not that hard to figure out.

 

as for "Ghosts" I tend to lump it with UFO`s, observable Phenomenon sure, Unexplained sometimes, but rarely!

 

and for Voice recordings (and I don`t expect anyone to understand this), but any amplifier circuit is 95% of any basic radio! two wires running side by side form both an inductor and capacitor cct, enough to form a simple TRF radio when connected to an amp.

[ajb]

...and for Voice recordings (and I don`t expect anyone to understand this), but any amplifier circuit is 95% of any basic radio! two wires running side by side form both an inductor and capacitor cct, enough to form a simple TRF radio when connected to an amp.

 

So if you are not careful you can pick up all kinds of interference.

[YT2095]

So if you are not careful you can pick up all kinds of interference.

 

Absolutely! and you can get it from all around the world too! I often get germany on an old guitar amp I have when I plug a certain lead in it, and then in the afternoons I get some asian country like China or summat.

 

I`m sure everyone`s heard the dit, dit dit, dit, dit dit... from a Mobile fone too close to a TV or radio or amp before, it`s the same principal that even a Closed cct can pick stuff up.

[ajb]

Absolutely! and you can get it from all around the world too! I often get germany on an old guitar amp I have when I plug a certain lead in it, and then in the afternoons I get some asian country like China or summat.

 

I`m sure everyone`s heard the dit, dit dit, dit, dit dit... from a Mobile fone too close to a TV or radio or amp before, it`s the same principal that even a Closed cct can pick stuff up.

 

My dad works with various sensors and cameras at JET. Shielding from and removing spurious signals is a major part of the work.

[YT2095]

yeah, the lower frequency ones are the ones that present the most "pain" too, HF and above is pretty easy to shift, SW and below.... can be a nightmare! and of course altering something for One frequency can work against you for another and serve as an antenna

 

so it`s no real surprise that some recording kit can (and does) pick up Voices from the "ether" that sound a little out of place/ spooky, esp if you`re predisposed to that with some form of suggestion.

[stereologist]

What does K2 stand for, Korny Kontraption?

 

My favorite baloney term is ectoplasm. It makes everything seem so real. (I'm swooning just thinking about how real ectoplasm sounds.)

[YT2095]

the outer layer of protoplasm (IIRC), so what`s wrong with that?

[wvbig]

as much as I hate having to bring it Right Down to the vulgar basics, Follow The Money!

and with TV shows it`s all about ratings and Not that hard to figure out.

 

as for "Ghosts" I tend to lump it with UFO`s, observable Phenomenon sure, Unexplained sometimes, but rarely!

 

and for Voice recordings (and I don`t expect anyone to understand this), but any amplifier circuit is 95% of any basic radio! two wires running side by side form both an inductor and capacitor cct, enough to form a simple TRF radio when connected to an amp.

You're right, I don't understand what you're saying in any technical detail. But I believe you're saying there is a logical explanation for EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomenon) Right?

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

by "ghost hunters" I simply meant one or any of the many generic programmes on the subject.

 

I have seen some, probably the "Ghost Hunters" (they were ex-plumbers?) that are better. They debunked most of the ghosts.

 

There was one, I cannot remember the exact name but they did find some "anomalies" in thermal imaging. However, these were not really investigated. I suspect (if the results were not faked) that they were down to internal effects of the cameras and/or products of how they were being used. A large part of sensor engineering is making sure you get the signals you are expecting.

 

There was no independent observations or "anomalies" recorded by any other means they employed.

 

Thus, the results are not really very scientific.

Last night they mentioned that sometimes the source for a thermal vision hit is an animal inside a wall. I think a grief stricken mind can manifest things as well. Some noticeable only to the grief stricken person & some noticeable to others. Back in 1995, a friend of mine was killed in a car accident. For a couple months, I could occasionally smell her perfume & once in awhile, my door would slowly open, I would say "Close the door please Brenda" and it would slowly close. This happened in front of witnesses. The thing is, Brenda was never in my house. So there is no reason for her "spirit" or "ghost" to be there either. And after a couple months, everything stopped

Edited April 9, 2009 by wvbig
I left out a word

[mrburns2012]

I've observed ghosts in independently recorded films like Casper, Ghostbusters, The Ring, The Sixth Sense, and many others. Any scientist can independently verify my claims are true.. I kid you not.

 

On a more serious note, I agree that not all people who have claimed to have seen ghosts lied. It's been proven that physical and chemical alterations to the brain, which is tangible and not merely some abstract concept conceived by religious zealots, can alter the senses like auditory, touch, smell, vision, etc... In other words, even external stimuli aren't always necessary for "ghost" sightings to have some logical explanation.

Edited April 10, 2009 by mrburns2012

[JohnB]

Well, having seen the damn things myself, both alone and in company, I can say that there is something there.

 

What they are and what causes them, I have no idea, only speculations.

 

I doubt that science can have much of a part in their research as yet though. If we are dealing with a "conscious" entity then reproducable results won't happen as they require the entity to actively participate in the experiment. Just because nobody answers the phone when you call doesn't mean that nobody's home.

 

Given those constraints, it becomes impossible to prove that I exist, let alone a ghost.

 

However, if they exist, it must be as some form of energy somehow. Maybe we just don't have the right detection tools.

 

Without being mean, isn't some 95% of the Universe currently "invisible"? We know the stuff is there but don't know what it is or how to directly detect it.

[stereologist]

the outer layer of protoplasm (IIRC), so what`s wrong with that?

Ectoplasm was coined by Charles Richet to describe physical manifestations of ghosts.

That's what's wrong with it.

[Phi for All]

Ectoplasm was coined by Charles Richet to describe physical manifestations of ghosts.

That's what's wrong with it.

Free Online Dictionary:

 

ec·to·plasm (kt-plzm)

n.

1. Biology - The outer portion of the continuous phase of cytoplasm of a cell, sometimes distinguishable as a somewhat rigid, gelled layer beneath the cell membrane.

 

 

So I would say that Richet didn't coin the term, but merely borrowed the coin for use in his description of the supernatural.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Phi for All
Consecutive posts merged.

[MM6]

Ghosts are real! When I walk outside in the daytime this black ghost follows me all over. It changes it's position relative to me but it's always attached to me! Explain that!

[jjuris]

what exactly is a ghost. I've seen all these "ghost hunter" people, and they have much more experience in these subjects than i do, but i think its all in the mind. I lost a brother to suicide a couple of years ago, and as much as i think he's around, i understand its more in my mind, creating effects, than anything supernatural. But you never know, you can find out when your times up.

[Ophiolite]

I have seen ghosts twice. I certainly don't believe in them as spirits of the departed. Both of my sightings were hallucinations occuring immediately upon waking and lasting for up to one minute. The first occured within two days of reading about the phenomenon, being fascinated by it and hoping it would occur to me. I am sure if I were gullible, or predisposed to believe, then I would have thought I had seen 'real' ghosts.

[stereologist]

The idea that Richet coined the term came from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectoplasm_(paranormal)

 

and here

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectoplasm

 

I believe that the paranormal marketer attempts to provide some essence of respectability by borrowing scientific terms. The misuse of 'good sounding' words like harmonic, energy, vibration, vortex, ether, and ectoplasm are simply done to con the unwary.