max.yevs Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) i live close to a large electronics store which sells 1kg bottles of sodium and ammonium persulfate (for etching copper)... these are very good oxidizers (sprinkled on a piece of paper, the paper burns bright as a firework)... question is... is there any way to make sulfuric acid out of them? im thinking maybe something like Na2S2O8 + Cu > Na2SO4 + CuSO4 then, CuSO4 + 2HCl > CuCl2 + 2H2SO4 oh and i mixed Na2S2O8 + HCl once, that does not react... (i was hoping to make a very corrosive mixture) Edited March 24, 2009 by max.yevs
hermanntrude Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 be careful, max, you're messing with some heavy chemistry. no idea if your idea would work, but the thing about the peroxodisulfate ion (which i assume is the one you have... persulfate refers to several different ions), is that it has a strong tendancy to undergo homogeneous cleavage... in other words it follows radical pathways, due to the peroxo group in the centre of the ion.
YT2095 Posted March 24, 2009 Posted March 24, 2009 I don`t think This: CuSO4 + 2HCl > CuCl2 + 2H2SO4 is right. I`m fairly sure the arrow is the Other way around.
max.yevs Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) thanks hermanntrude, i have Na2S2O8... from what i've done with it so far, i think it donates a sulafte ion- a radical thought, i dont know if its true... and sulfates are in themselves weak oxidizers since they release oxygen at high temp. yeah yt, this the thing i dont get with copper- its less reactive on the activity series then hydrogen, and it does not react with most acids, which is why i think it would work, though im not sure... it would be nice to get sulfuric acid, though- its used in a lot of experiments Merged post follows: Consecutive posts mergedwell i'll post a picture if it works... when i do try it... it's really the only way i can think of to get sulfuric acid... if i do get H2SO4, ill react it with NH4NO3 to try to get nitric acid... and then if i can get some copper to dissolve in it, that will be proof that it worked copper + nitric acid or i suppose i can put sugar in it Edited March 26, 2009 by max.yevs Consecutive posts merged.
hermanntrude Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 my chemistry class did this reaction yesterday [ce]Cu(s) + 4HNO3(aq) -> Cu(NO3)2(aq) +2NO2(g) + 2H2O(l)[/ce] It results in thick clouds of brown NO2, which is exceedingly toxic. Don't try this at home!
max.yevs Posted March 26, 2009 Author Posted March 26, 2009 how toxic exactly is NO2? they say chlorine is toxic, but i've dealt with it several times, never feel any ill effects (the smell is not even that bad, until you get a good whiff of it, that makes you jump back)
max.yevs Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) thanks, that's quite a collection of gas data sheets! yeah i guess its toxic, although i won't believe for myself until i actually get near it... in any case, i've got distracted by some other more interesting projects, although i'll probably try this when i happen to have persulfates on hand and/or need some sulfuric or nitric acid... Edited March 27, 2009 by max.yevs
hermanntrude Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 max, for crying out loud try to be careful. And if you can't be careful, please don't tell us anything about your experiments so we don't bear any responsibility when they find you, blue lipped and with blood filling your lungs, dead on the floor.
max.yevs Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) yeah, i'll be careful don't worry plus when making some gas, i usually wear a respirator + goggles, and do it outside (of course!) what's not very good about NO2 that it can give you pulmonary edema a lot later, without any ill effects right away... at least the halogens you can smell very easily; NO2 supposedly anesthesizes the nose in small quantities so you can't smell it. not sure why i got an infraction, but i do realize i got to start posting projects onto a my own website...after all this is a forum... Edited March 27, 2009 by max.yevs
YT2095 Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 you got an Infraction for posting stupidity, with an "I couldn`t care less" attitude that could just as easily see you Dead, we also have a Legal obligation to the content on our site. THAT is why you had your Official warning above the ones given to you in threads such as this. if you`re Genuinely interested in Science (and Specifically Chemistry) you`ll learn quite a bit here, but Not by being silly or doing crazy things, it Doesn`t Impress us! but do it Properly and post your results, Then you`r on the right track btw, you`re Not the 1`st to have a hazmat warning (and won`t be the last), it`s nothing Personal, it`s just the Rules there to protect You as well as US.
max.yevs Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) sorry YT and hermanntrude, guess i must have undestimated the toxicity of NO2, wasn't trying to seem outrageous... but yeah pulmonary edema is quite scary... and i don't take it personally; if i could i would edit that post... but i don't plan on using any niric acid anytime soon anyways. Edited March 28, 2009 by max.yevs
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