Lotr v harry potter.

[bascule]

no problem:-)!.

 

That said Ulysses would still hold as my favorite book by a UK author.

[ChemSiddiqui]

That said Ulysses would still hold as my favorite book by a UK author.

 

hmmm...ok cool. Can you convince me to buy it(I would want to if its good enough, mind!). I havent read it so want to no if its worth buying! o yea, by the way what the genre?

[D H]

Man goes for a walk around Dublin. Nothing happens.

[ChemSiddiqui]

Man goes for a walk around Dublin. Nothing happens.

 

What is that all, ! now thats hilarious how/why would someone write a novel 1000 pages worth and nothing happens!. is it so or you are being biased?. I dont know i read a bit about this novel on wikipedia and from what i read it will be a very boring novel....no disrespect to bascule's taste. I guess I wont buy it then and no its not your opinion that made my mind up!.

[bascule]

What is that all, ! now thats hilarious how/why would someone write a novel 1000 pages worth and nothing happens!. is it so or you are being biased?. I dont know i read a bit about this novel on wikipedia and from what i read it will be a very boring novel....no disrespect to bascule's taste. I guess I wont buy it then and no its not your opinion that made my mind up!.

 

That's an apt description of the plot, yes. Ulysses is not a book you read for the plot so much as its multi-layered symbolism.

[Inquisitor]

WEll, Harry Potter series, to me, is rather mediocre literature, especially compared to tolkien.

 

What I think made the HP so popular with people is the fact that all main protagonists are much liked and sought after by the opposite sex. harry from the start, hermione a bit later, and even poor ole ron gets some action in the sixth book.

 

Great stratagem by the author. I mean would we like harry as much had he not got pretty much every girl attracted to him in the school, despite having specs, a hideous scar and mediocre magic talents?

[Pangloss]

Actually I think the author went out of her way to make his talents greater than the other kids'. What made the Potter books compelling for me was clever plot development and interesting characters. But to each his own, of course.

 

-------------------

 

On another note, some say that the Potter books are not very original, but then neither was Lord of the Rings. I did a little lecture bit with my Game Design students last night where I described a great epic story that takes place in a fantasy setting and is told in four great volumes. In the first, sort-of precursor to the main trilogy, we learn of a diminutive race of pastoral people who shun the life of men and cities. A member of this race finds himself caught up in a series of Great Events, involving a battle between men and other races, an encounter with a dragon, and many other exciting happenings. At the end of the first story, this person receives a great magic item -- a powerful ring with the ability to turn the wearer invisible! He returns home to his pastoral setting and continues his life.

 

(At this point the students begin rolling their eyes, wondering why I would think that they've never heard this story....)

 

I continue on to describe the main trilogy, talking about how it turns out that the ring, unknown to its current holders, is actually the source of a great, ancient power, and can give its wearer the ability to rule the entire world. At this point other characters are introduced, including a great human hunter who is actually a forgotten descendant of an ancient noble line, with a mighty sword that was destroyed in ancient times, but has since been reforged with the hope that he will become a great leader of men. We also learn of his girlfriend, who is a member of an ancient and immortal race that look just like humans, but have mystical powers that are never quite explained.

 

As the story continues, great forces and alliances are formed as they learn of the return of the ancient Ring of power to the world, and attempts are made to capture it and/or prevent it from falling into the hands of the great evil enemy, which has also risen again. In the end a titanic battle ensues, and through a singular act of heroism the ring is cast into a magic fire that destroys it, thereby vanquishing the evil from the land. And at the end the mystical human-like race decides that it's time to depart the world of men and go... elsewhere.

 

Here of course I ask the students what story I'm describing, and of course they all shout "Lord of the Rings!" and laugh. And then I get to have my fun and inform them that in fact it's the story of Der Ring des Niebelungen, an opera in four acts by Richard Wagner, based on the ancient mythological stories of the Norse and Germanic peoples.

 

Of course the stories are much different if you dig any deeper, but the point is that no story is ever truly original, or more optimistically put, a story doesn't have to be entirely new to be interesting.

[bascule]

On another note, some say that the Potter books are not very original, but then neither was Lord of the Rings.

 

[...]

 

Here of course I ask the students what story I'm describing, and of course they all shout "Lord of the Rings!" and laugh. And then I get to have my fun and inform them that in fact it's the story of Der Ring des Niebelungen, an opera in four acts by Richard Wagner, based on the ancient mythological stories of the Norse and Germanic peoples.

 

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say Lord of the Rings was unoriginal. That same argument can be applied to virtually anything (it synthesized elements which existed in other forms into a new form)

 

One of the best science fiction series I've ever read, Stephen Donaldson's Gap Cycle, is very much allegorical to Wagner's Ring Cycle. I would say the Gap Cycle is a ripoff of the Ring Cycle before I would claim that Lord of the Rings is a ripoff of the Ring Cycle. Characters, plots, and themes of the Ring Cycle are allegorically incorporated into the Gap Cycle. That's not to say the Gap Cycle is a ripoff of the Ring Cycle so much as it is a homage.

[Pangloss]

Of course the stories are much different if you dig any deeper, but the point is that no story is ever truly original, or more optimistically put, a story doesn't have to be entirely new to be interesting.

[Inquisitor]

I thought it was very clever from the author to make Harry Potter a Celebrity from the word go. I mean in the book.

 

Think how it saved troube: Everybody knows harry already, so Author does not need to write introduction scenes every time Harry meets somebody.

 

So, whenever in the books harry meets somebody, they go like, Hey, it's harry potter! I know all about you, harry, so no need to introduce yourself!

 

Very funny, really, if a bit cheap.

[Ladeira]

Harry Potter movies are SHIT. But the books are excelent. I like LOTR and HP but I can't just choose one. ><

[Inquisitor]

About harrys talents:

 

If you read the books, you will see that harry was mediocre in most subjects,and in potions, clairvoyancy (both very magical subjects!) and history of magick he almost failed every year!

So he was a really crap at his studies. Only thing he was good at was offensive magick, and that only because he got some powers from voldemort

 

Do not say that name!!! -ed

 

Sorry. Anyway, harry was crap at his studies, and had no real talent or grasp of magic whatsoever. Zip. Zero. Nada.

 

Oh, he was good at sports. Whee, that makes him the same as all the bullies I used to have to deal with at school.

[Sayonara]

Of course he was rubbish at his school work - he spent all of his private study time sticking his big nose where it wasn't wanted and meddling in tax-paying adults' private business affairs.

 

He needs a good smack that kid.

[Inquisitor]

The way I see it, without Hermione to help them, both Ron and Harry would have failed every single exam and school project they had to tackle.

 

Had it not been for Hermione, the two numbsculls would have been kicked out the school in their second year, latest.

 

Countless are the occasions where hermione pestered the boys till they agreed to actually read for their exams. And the occasions where Hermiones whispered advice, during class, saved both boys from failing to make their potions and whatnots.

 

Now, analyze this: Other students did not have The top student, The know it all Hermione to help them. And other students, even Longbottom, managed still to get through their exams. This means that all the other students were both brighter and more talented than Ron or Harry ever hoped to be in their wildest dreams.

 

And chasing Voldemort?

 

Please! Will you NOT say that name! -ed

 

Sorry. But really: Imagine Harry and Ron chasing Vo.. chasing you-know-who around without Hermiones help. The kids would have been left clueless! They would not have gotten past the first riddle, with Ron shouting 'Harry, heeeeelp!' and Harry wondering 'where's me broomstick then', all the time! It would have been quite a short series, albeit a humorous one!

 

 

BTW: some people erroneously think Harry as the ultimate nerd. This is very silly. Nerds like to read tough books, they are fast thinkers, and are able to grasp new things quickly. All Harry liked to read was his quiddich guide, only thing fast on him was his temper, and the only thing he could readily grasp was his broomstick, The Ultimate Phallos 2000.

 

 

I wonder what will come of our Harry now that he has lost the magical powers bestowed unto him by the unwitting Vol... you-know-who..?

 

I would bet that mostly it includes having children. With Ginny being irish, any preventives will be banned from the house, and so, twenty years from now, Harry will be a happy father of no less than dozen children, all quite as barmy as their daddy-o.

 

Ron and Hermione? Well, thats easy! Ron will be a succesfull Quiddich star for all of five minutes. He will then have an injury that will never quite heal (or so he claims). So he will potter about the Potter recidence all day, talking about the good ole days with Potter, while they look after the Potter kids (Gin's working, see. Well, someone has to!). And hermione? She will be the most famous research magician ever. She''l travel all over the globe, picking up forgotten spells from old witches. And on her travels she will meet with Viktor Klum again and they will fall in love. Again. Aaaah, aint that sweet???

 

Hmmm. I could write a book about all this! And post it at Potter fan forums!

[jimmydasaint]

LOTR comprised an excellent series of films which can be read on two different levels. The characterisation is more complete, the setting is superb and mysterious. The themes are varied and interesting. Harry Potter is mildly entertaining. J.K. Rowlings is a nice person, and does well, but aims for a young target audience. Sorry guys, but there is no competition here - LOTR by a mile or 1.6 km for the non Brits.

[ParanoiA]

One of the best science fiction series I've ever read, Stephen Donaldson's Gap Cycle, is very much allegorical to Wagner's Ring Cycle. I would say the Gap Cycle is a ripoff of the Ring Cycle before I would claim that Lord of the Rings is a ripoff of the Ring Cycle. Characters, plots, and themes of the Ring Cycle are allegorically incorporated into the Gap Cycle. That's not to say the Gap Cycle is a ripoff of the Ring Cycle so much as it is a homage.

 

I don't know man. I read about the Ring Cycle, and got pretty confused fairly quickly. I was actually looking for Donaldson's characters in Wagner's and I couldn't find them. I thought I had stumbled on a site that attempted to link the two stories, and I believe they went all through it, but it sure seemed like a stretch to me - even though Donaldson is completely open about the framework.

 

It just seems like if I have a character that obsesses about an object, to the point it controls him, seals him to a life of doom - presto! I'm copying LOTR's Gollum. Never mind that the character seems a spitting image of a heroine junkie to more people than otherwise.

 

That's how I felt the correllations were with Wagner's and Donaldson's stories. But then again, I also freely admit I'm not all that interested in Wagner's and I'm not open to receiving it as one should.

[bascule]

I don't know man. I read about the Ring Cycle, and got pretty confused fairly quickly. I was actually looking for Donaldson's characters in Wagner's and I couldn't find them.

 

This is a pretty good synopsis:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gap_Cycle#The_Gap_Cycle_vs._Wagner.27s_Ring_Cycle:_a_comparison

[ParanoiA]

Hey, that's the site I was talking about. I guess it was just Wiki all along. Thanks.

 

And here's an example of what I'm talking about:

 

Min Donner implies the parallel of two Wagnerian roles. The obvious comparison is of the Thunder God, "Donner" who wields his mighty hammer in defense of the Gods, as does the UMCP's Enforcement Director, Min Donner, defending Earth and Space against the hostile forces of the galaxy. Donaldson goes out of his way to note on several occasions that Min's impact pistol never leaves her side, creating a parallel with the Ring's Donner and his hammer.

 

Yeah, I see where the parallels are and I also acknowledge that someone familiar with both stories could have some fun with these themes. But seriously? A UMCP Enforcement Director with a Pistol that doesn't leave her side is analogous to a Thunder God that defends the gods, who's hammer never leaves his possession - enough so, that "originality" is lost? (Originality, as Pangloss covered it).

 

I don't know. It's hard to accept that originality is really gone. By this measurement, all of the stories have been told. All we're doing now is putting new clothes on them.

[Pangloss]

BTW, the Wagnerian Ring Cycle is only four hours longer than the extended edition of Peter Jackson's Ring Cycle. Hint, hint.

[A Childs Mind]

omg how can most of you like LOTR..... IT WAS JUST 3 Movies of a bunch of walking

 

now star wars..... thats a movie series

[Sayonara]

Yeah... this thread's actually about the books.

[ParanoiA]

Yeah, the walking was so much cooler in print.

[Sayonara]

You know, you could say the same about running around in the woods shouting "Lightning bolt, lightning bolt."

 

I think quality of literature counts for a lot, and HP is laughable when compared to LOTR.

[A Childs Mind]

did they walk in the books to.... Thankyou

[Sayonara]

Yes, and sometimes they ran too.