Lotr v harry potter.

[A Childs Mind]

.........and flew on dragons and giant birds

[ParanoiA]

Oh man, I almost forgot about the running.

 

What about eating Aliantha while walking and running? Oh wait, that was Thomas Covenant. Well at least it takes walking and running to the next level, huh?

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You know, you could say the same about running around in the woods shouting "Lightning bolt, lightning bolt."

 

I think quality of literature counts for a lot, and HP is laughable when compared to LOTR.

 

No kidding. I'm actually kind of resentful of LOTR because my preferred fantasy series failed to make it to the big screen after every investor pointed out the fatal flaw: "it's got a ring in it" (add an english scowl to your inner voice on that one).

[A Childs Mind]

well for kids Harry potter beats lord of the rings hands down. but i dont no i like the magic and the story of harry potter

[bascule]

Yeah, I see where the parallels are and I also acknowledge that someone familiar with both stories could have some fun with these themes. But seriously? A UMCP Enforcement Director with a Pistol that doesn't leave her side is analogous to a Thunder God that defends the gods, who's hammer never leaves his possession - enough so, that "originality" is lost? (Originality, as Pangloss covered it).

 

I don't know. It's hard to accept that originality is really gone. By this measurement, all of the stories have been told. All we're doing now is putting new clothes on them.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much the point. While The Gap Cycle is obviously an intentional allegory with the Ring Cycle, it most certainly still stands alone as an independent, creative work.

 

What about eating Aliantha while walking and running? Oh wait, that was Thomas Covenant. Well at least it takes walking and running to the next level, huh?

 

Yes, Thomas Covenant is a lot of walking too... and rape.

 

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well for kids Harry potter beats lord of the rings hands down. but i dont no i like the magic and the story of harry potter

 

As has been covered before: Harry Potter is written for kids. Lord of the Rings is written for adults. So that's entirely expected.

 

That said it's not terribly hard for kids to read Lord of the Rings. I read it in 5th grade or so.

Edited April 10, 2009 by bascule
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[Pangloss]

I know a lot of kids who read LOTR after they finished HP.

[ParanoiA]

I guess I always considered LOTR a nice mix for adults and older kids. In fact, this has to do with why I believe LOTR did terrific at the box office, while other fantasy has perished, relatively.

 

Yes, Thomas Covenant is a lot of walking too... and rape.

 

Yeah, I have to admire an author that's willing to have his main character commit an atrocious act like that inside of the first hundred pages, yet create the most beautiful Giants in the next.

[ChemSiddiqui]

well for kids Harry potter beats lord of the rings hands down. but i dont no i like the magic and the story of harry potter

 

HP is well advertised because after a long time a british author has succeeded in attracting foreign audience. I dont know J.K.Rowling in my opinion created a novel which circulated around a pillock who as rightly pointed out here has no sense of real magic, is plain stupid and who just make use of his friends help to look like a hero. I cant see why children are so obsessed by HP; its got a similar plot to LOTR (dark lord rising and a group of people going against him etc), its characters arent that cool and its got a touch of romance which i dont see fits really well in a fantasy novel.

 

I might be biased but LOTR is WAY better than HP.

[bascule]

I know a lot of kids who read LOTR after they finished HP.

 

Awesome! One of the main criticisms of Pottermania is it encourages kids to read... but all they read Harry Potter... it doesn't translate into a love of reading for the sake of reading.

 

I'm glad to hear this isn't the case... at least sometimes.

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I don't know. It's hard to accept that originality is really gone. By this measurement, all of the stories have been told. All we're doing now is putting new clothes on them.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much the point. While The Gap Cycle is obviously an intentional allegory with the Ring Cycle, it most certainly still stands alone as an independent, creative work.

 

Also: this is just me, but rather than looking down on a work for being allegorical, I'm probably much more apt to like it.

 

If nothing else, it shows the author is well-read, and borrowing a classical story and reinterpreting it in a novel way provides a framework in which the derivative work can be understood.

 

This is the case with some of the best literature I've ever read (e.g. Ulysses)

Edited April 11, 2009 by bascule
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[ParanoiA]

Also: this is just me' date=' but rather than looking down on a work for being allegorical, I'm probably much more apt to like it.

 

If nothing else, it shows the author is well-read, and borrowing a classical story and reinterpreting it in a novel way provides a framework in which the derivative work can be understood.[/quote']

 

Very true. And really, I could see it being even a bit more difficult to piece together than something you didn't allegorically mirror. This is a thick story, and the characters have thick detail with honest motivations. And for the record, I certainly don't look down on it. I'm not as excited about it as others, but I'm always impressed with Donaldson.

[Pangloss]

I enjoyed the "Covenant" books a lot when they first came out, but my friends all hated them because they felt they were "too derivative of Tolkien". I've never read the Gap books, but I'll have to put them on my list now. I didn't realize they were based on Wagner's Ring until Bascule's post. That's pretty cool.

 

Unfortunately they aren't offered as Kindle downloads. I am devouring books on my iPhone Kindle app lately. Just lovin' it.

[Inquisitor]

I'm not that big fan of Lotr trilogy either.

 

I mean it starts very well, with four noncombatants having an adventure in local woods and willages. The action is kept small scale, which makes it more believeable and enjoyable.

 

But then the plot thickens. Fates of nations and the destinies of kings come into play, and the heroes have to save the world. Darn! It's always so annoying when this happens in fantasy books, because things get too large and the reader has to be kept appraised of everything that happens in the whole nation. Which means lot of the text just recounts large scale battles and the meetings of high politicians, instead of telling what the down to earth heroes are doing.

 

But still, Tolkien can be forgiven this. He is one of the first fantasy writers, so could not know about the risks involved when juggling with fates of nations. Also, Tolkien does rather good. He is able, most of the time, to keep it real, and he does, with the hobbits, manage to keep most of the adventure small scale and interesting. And he also tries not to make big deal of big battles. Rather, many a battle is just recounted by couple of sentences and then forgotten. Many other writers would not have done so, but would have rather written 200 boring pages about the battles in question!

 

Bad case of the Fates of Nations syndrome can be seen in Robert Jordan and his dreadful Wheel of Time series. In that series, the things get so large scale that the poor author has to spend whole books in telling about the military happenings and political shehanigans of various distant lands, instead of recounting thrilling adventures. Poor Jordan. His first book of the series was quite good, but then he lost the grip and decided to give big destinies for his heroes.

 

But back to the Potter!

 

Do you know that in the future the Ministry of magic is corrupted again, and weasleys thrown out? Well, it is! To combat the corruption, the Weasley family forms a secret society called Really Irish, and try to blow up the ministry with fireworks! Times of terror follow!

[Pangloss]

But then the plot thickens. Fates of nations and the destinies of kings come into play, and the heroes have to save the world. Darn! It's always so annoying when this happens in fantasy books, because things get too large and the reader has to be kept appraised of everything that happens in the whole nation. Which means lot of the text just recounts large scale battles and the meetings of high politicians, instead of telling what the down to earth heroes are doing.

 

But still, Tolkien can be forgiven this.

 

I hate to break it to you but most people liked that Tolkein did that. Why is it that you think Jordan wrote his books that way? Also, don't forget that Sauron is destroyed not because of a massive conflict between nations, but because of a single act of heroism. Precisely 1/2 of the 2nd and 3rd books are devoted to that story.

 

But of course, to each his own.

[bascule]

Bad case of the Fates of Nations syndrome can be seen in Robert Jordan and his dreadful Wheel of Time series

 

Agreed. I've only read the Eye of the World, but I grew rather quickly to dislike Robert Jordan and his bombastic writing style.

 

I'm sure most of his fans screamed "NOOO!" when he died but what were they expecting? Did they think he'd actually finish it before he died?

[Sayonara]

I'm sure most of his fans screamed "NOOO!" when he died but what were they expecting? Did they think he'd actually finish it before he died?

 

Kevin J. Anderson will get around to finishing it off for him, once he has finished destroying the Dune universe.