would it be possible for a genetically altered animal to be able to live in space?

[cameron marical]

would it be possible for a genetically altered animal to be able to live in space? do you guys think it could be done?

[Dudde]

I don't think so, personally - too many things that life is dependent on that doesn't happen to be in space in a consistent enough manner to support life.

 

Would a carbon based life-form even be able to enter space without a suit of some sort? Even if you filled the cavities in the body, I don't think so.

 

-if it is, please someone post how, that'd be sweet, I would own one

[crazybrain68]

Do you mean living out in space without any protection or in something like the Space Shuttle or ISS?

[cameron marical]

in space without any protection

 

it would have an outer layer itself to protect it from the harsh space environment. wich could be constantly repared by cells and others. it could also, i dont know, recycle its own air by having plants and bacteria or algae living inside of it itself. like a living spaceship. probably be closely related to a blue whale id think. so, ya, i think its possible.

[insane_alien]

where does it aquire the mass to reproduce?

 

more to the point, where does it aquire the matter to replenesh the waste it will inevitable produce, you can't recycle every waste product.

[arnolp04]

I don't think animals have a good survival record in space - but, are you asking whether the process of genetically altering an animal would affect its chances of survival? If it's a cloned animal, well, their success rates aren't too good on the ground, so I don't see how they would fare any better in space. And even if you're talking about an animal that's had a few cells genetically altered, perhaps to express some human proteins, this shouldn't affect its survivability. I imagine that it would be all the other affects of space travel, and zero-to low gravity that would dictate whether an animal lives or dies. Or whether the crew was hungry.

[SkepticLance]

There is no theoretical reason why not. Of course, to survive, any animal must have a compatible ecology. This could be supplied artificially by humans who bring food and water. Our hypothetical being would have to obtain energy anaerobically, which is less energy efficient, but living in weightlessness may permit a slowing of metabolism to suit. We already know that certain bacteria of the genus Bacillus can produce spores that can survive in space almost indefinitely.

 

A more interesting question, in my mind, is whether a whole ecology could come into being, and evolve in space. Perhaps in a place where materials are available, such as the rings around a planet? If that planet were in the orbit that permitted water to be liquid?? Most of the water could be ice, as long as there were pockets of liquid water here and there.

[CharonY]

Any metabolism we know of requires (liquid) water which would be frozen solid in space. Any heat the organism would be able to produce would dissipate too fast. Also the pressure is an issue. The only way to overcome it would be to seal itself off (essentially as spores are doing). But then they would not be able to obtain any nutrients.

[SkepticLance]

Charon

You are correct in saying that temperature control would be important. Assuming the animal concerned was living within the zone where water is liquid, it would be possible for it to maintain its internal temperature with heat collecting and heat dissipating surfaces. Solar heating, and black radiating fins perhaps?

[Mokele]

The bigger issue is food and oxygen. Any animal needs both, and in space, it can get neither. Even a plant couldn't work, as they need nutrients and gasses.

[SkepticLance]

Mokele

As I pointed out earlier, energy release would have to be anaerobic. If the metabolism was slowed sufficiently, this is quite possible theoretically. Even humans carry out a degree of anaerobic respiration for energy release.

[Mokele]

And what are they going to anaerobically metabolize? They need food.

[SkepticLance]

Mokele

Please refer to my post #7

[cameron marical]

maybe have many animals genetically altered in space. so it would be an ecosystem in space.

 

something that i was wondering about, is, what would things use for movement? could a gyroscope like movement be used?

[mooeypoo]

The main problem of open space is not pressure, and not the extreme changes in temperature from extreme cold to extreme heat - the MAIN problem is radiation.

 

As far as I know, that's the major problem of any biological entities to survive space without any form of protection. It's killed off by the radiation.

 

It might be possible for a bacteria to survive space if it is frozen and inside a meteor but that is no longer without any protection...

[SkepticLance]

Cameron

Re movement in space.

I think of two possibilities. One is to use reaction mass. That is, they eject at high speed some material such as liquid water, squid-like, to propel them in the opposite direction. Obviously, to do this they would need to be able to replenish that mass.

 

The other is to use light sails. Perhaps large membranes they could angle for propulsion, by reflecting light off them?

 

Of course, a space dwelling being does not have to be in free space. If it lived on the surface of asteroids, for example, it could crawl about the asteroid. Dispersion could be by something like spraying spores into space.

 

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that such a being would need an ultra-slow metabolism. Space is so big that almost anything involving travel is going to take an awful long time. Perhaps our hypothetical being might be like a tardigrade, and hibernate for centuries.

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

To Mooeypoo

 

I doubt that radiation would be that much of a problem. Remember we are genetically altering this beast for space, and that will include high radiation tolerance. Humans are very vulnerable to radiation. but lots of species have genes giving excellent DNA repair, and high radiation tolerance. Our GM beast could be made to tolerate a million times as much radiation as a human.

 

Genes from radiation tolerant bacteria might well do the trick.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,894282,00.html?promoid=googlep

 

Also

 

http://www.genoscope.cns.fr/spip/Deinococcus-deserti-tolerant-to.html

Edited March 30, 2009 by SkepticLance
Consecutive posts merged.

[mooeypoo]

To Mooeypoo

 

I doubt that radiation would be that much of a problem. Remember we are genetically altering this beast for space, and that will include high radiation tolerance. Humans are very vulnerable to radiation. but lots of species have genes giving excellent DNA repair, and high radiation tolerance. Our GM beast could be made to tolerate a million times as much radiation as a human.

 

Genes from radiation tolerant bacteria might well do the trick.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,894282,00.html?promoid=googlep

 

Actually, you would be surprised - the MAIN problem with sending anything biological (people, animals, whatever) to Mars is the accumulated radiation, and here we're talking about biological entities wrapped in the protective gear of a shuttle...

 

I think it might be possible there are life forms we're not aware of that might survive such extreme conditions, but I am not sure how plausible it is that they'll survive with absolutely no protection whatsoever. The conditions shift from one extreme to the other (extreme hot, extreme cold) plus the accumulated radiation from a large range of the spectrum... I'm not sure it is all that plausible.

 

I'm not entirely dismissing it, though.

[cameron marical]

when i think of something like this, i think of a blue whale floating freely in space.

 

whats the image that you guys would think an organism like this would look like?

[Mokele]

Dead, due to lack of food.

[moth]

i know you're talking animals in space, but maybe the next best thing?

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast01sep98_1.htm

 

it's an old story, but it's proof that single cells could survive unprotected, so multi-celled organisms may not be too unimaginable.

[SkepticLance]

To mooeypoo

 

I suspect you may have missed the point of my last post. We are talking of an animal specifically genetically engineered to live in space. As you said, radiation is a problem. Thus, some of that genetic modification will be to deal with radiation. Lots of species can do this already. For example : quoting from my last reference :

 

"Deinococcus radiodurans R1

Of the Deinococcus species, only Deinococcus radiodurans strain R1 has been extensively studied. High doses of gamma radiation, as well as prolonged periods of desiccation, generate numerous double-strand breaks in the genome of D. radiodurans. It has been shown that D. radiodurans is able to repair the radiation-induced breaks within a few hours with cells grown and recovered in rich growth medium. The genome of D. radiodurans R1 has been completely sequenced and analyzed (Makarova et al., 2001, Microbiol Mol Biol Rev 65: 44), and the effects of exposure of the cells to gamma radiation on the transcriptome and proteome have been determined, demonstrating modulation of expression of numerous genes. Based on what is known at present, three hypotheses to explain its radiation-tolerance can be proposed:

 

D. radiodurans may use conventionnel repair mechanisms, but much more efficiently than other bacteria;

novel repair proteins may be present among the hypothetical proteins of which the function is currently unknown;

the DNA is present as a highly condensed structure that limits dispersion of fragments generated by irradiation, which may facilitate repair.

Despite these hypotheses, the genome repair mechanisms of D. radiodurans, and thus its extreme radiation-tolerance, are still largely unclear (Cox & Battista, 2005, Nat Rev Microbiol 3: 882)."

 

This bacterium has the genetic make-up to handle many times the radioactivity that space has to throw at you. Genetic insertion of the genes for radio-tolerance that this bacterium has would be more than sufficient to create an animal able to tolerate the radiation of space.

[Mokele]

it's an old story, but it's proof that single cells could survive unprotected, so multi-celled organisms may not be too unimaginable.

 

True, but the cells in question were only temporarily in space, and thus simply were able to 'hold their breath' and 'go hungry' until returned to Earth. Indefinite survival is a whole different matter.

[CharonY]

That is also the point I tried to make. And I was only referring to single-cell organism which have an easier time of survival than any full-fledged animal.

[moth]

i thought it was interesting because the bacteria were just along for the ride. they hadn't been selected to try and survive, but they did. if a random species of bacteria can survive at all(even dormant), chances are some other bacteria could do better.

not to stray too far from the topic, but in a system where you have a body of water interfacing with space on a regular basis - like Europa, maybe organisms could evolve to survive in space(if there are any critters in Europa)

[SkepticLance]

Mokele

The original question did not ask if an animal could find food in space. Just if an animal could be genetically modified to live in space.

 

Let me put up a science fiction scenario.

It is a few hundred years in the future. In earth orbit are literally tens of thousands of substantial satellites, including large numbers of habitats holding humans. Also in Earth orbit are a few trillion specks of dust, paint iron filings etc. Any satellite is essentially being continually sand blasted. Even with reinforced walls, in time all such vessels will lose integrity.

 

To solve the problem, a genetically modified organism is designed, able to live in space. It is programmed to use tentacles to hold onto small protrusions, and slowly move its body over the outside surface of those habitats and satellites, laying down a nacreous layer to make up for the abrasion. It uses anaerobic respiration, and has an ultra slow metabolism. About every six months or so, a waldo visits each such GM animal, replacing the sacs of food, water, and nacreous filler, and removing accumulated waste.

 

The question is whether such an animal could be designed. I think the answer is yes. Given sufficient advances in genetic technology.