HHO and Energy transfer

[JKFlyguy]

Hi there.

I have an understanding that, by the laws of physics, has to be wrong.

 

Here's my understanding:

 

Its well known that pure H20 does not conduct electricity because of its magnetic orientation. As soon as you add an electrolyte (salt) to water and the electrolyte breaks up into Ions (Na+ Cl-), water becomes very conductive, and because of this change it actually takes less energy to break up H2 and O when a salt has been added then when a salt has not been added. Once broken up and in gas form, the h20 sheds the salt and becomes pure H and O2 gas.

 

This pure collision, free of an electrolyte, releases more energy than it took to break up the water because this reaction would have a transfer of energy in an amount that is equal or slightly less than it would have taken to split up h20 without any electrolyte, which would have been a greater amount than splitting up h20 with an electrolyte.

 

So salt here is a catalyst that gives free energy?

Energy's not free, so explain this, please.

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

basically

 

Energy amount A is the amount of energy it takes to split up non-electrolytic water.

Energy amount B is the amount of energy it takes to split up electrolytic water.

 

Process:

We have pure H20, no salt. It takes Energy amount A to split the water into H and O2. When ignited, the H and O2 would collide and release around Energy amount A.

 

We have electrolytic H20, with salt. It takes Energy amount B to split the water into H and O2. When ignited, the H and O2 would collide and, without the electrolyte now, release around Energy amount A.

 

Since Energy amount A is bigger than Energy amount B, I have just created Energy (the difference between amount A and B) from nothing but the presence of an electrolyte as a catalyst.

EXPLAIN PLEASE IM DYING TO KNOW THE ANSWER!

[UC]

Ultra pure water has a very high resistance. Any electricity you try to pass through it either doesn't flow at any meaningful rate or has effectively all of it's energy dissipated as heat. When you add ions that can ferry charge, you allow current to flow and the energy is instead (some of it at least) used up breaking H2O into H2 and O2. When you burn the H2 and O2 again, you get back *all* of the energy that went into splitting them (but none of the energy lost to the water's still present resistance, or dissipated in the wires or internal resistance of the power source). No engine can harness all of that energy, in fact, it will lose the majority of it as heat to the surroundings. Overall, you lose most of the energy you put in with the original electric current.

[coke]

Consider using a sulfate (i.e.epsom salt) instead of a chloride, sodium chloride electrolyses too easily into into sodium hydroxide and chlorine...

 

If i were you I would just tie it up to a voltemeter and see how long it will take to create a certain amount of H2 and O2 for each one. Or if you have a fixed current (i.e. a dc converter), forget the voltemeter. This is given to the fact how would you calculate the amount of energy from blowing it up?

[parinoid]

No engine can harness all of that energy, in fact, it will lose the majority of it as heat to the surroundings. Overall, you lose most of the energy you put in with the original electric current.

 

Proton exchange fuel cells come darn close though.

But yes, the law of phyics are upheld here (specifically the laws of thermodynamics) the energy required to seperate the atoms is always the same, however the energy lost due to resistance is what is changed by the electrolyte.

The reverse reaction releases ALL of the energy use to split the water apart regardless of form. This is true for all reactions.

 

In short what UC said (plus mentioning the ultimate laws of thermodynamics!)

[jdurg]

Hi there.

I have an understanding that, by the laws of physics, has to be wrong.

 

Here's my understanding:

 

Its well known that pure H20 does not conduct electricity because of its magnetic orientation. As soon as you add an electrolyte (salt) to water and the electrolyte breaks up into Ions (Na+ Cl-), water becomes very conductive, and because of this change it actually takes less energy to break up H2 and O when a salt has been added then when a salt has not been added. Once broken up and in gas form, the h20 sheds the salt and becomes pure H and O2 gas.

 

This pure collision, free of an electrolyte, releases more energy than it took to break up the water because this reaction would have a transfer of energy in an amount that is equal or slightly less than it would have taken to split up h20 without any electrolyte, which would have been a greater amount than splitting up h20 with an electrolyte.

 

So salt here is a catalyst that gives free energy?

Energy's not free, so explain this, please.

---

Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

basically

 

Energy amount A is the amount of energy it takes to split up non-electrolytic water.

Energy amount B is the amount of energy it takes to split up electrolytic water.

 

Process:

We have pure H20, no salt. It takes Energy amount A to split the water into H and O2. When ignited, the H and O2 would collide and release around Energy amount A.

 

We have electrolytic H20, with salt. It takes Energy amount B to split the water into H and O2. When ignited, the H and O2 would collide and, without the electrolyte now, release around Energy amount A.

 

Since Energy amount A is bigger than Energy amount B, I have just created Energy (the difference between amount A and B) from nothing but the presence of an electrolyte as a catalyst.

EXPLAIN PLEASE IM DYING TO KNOW THE ANSWER!

 

Did you happen to forget the amount of energy required to make the salt in the first place? It didn't just appear out of nowhere. You have to take that into account.