Carnivorous Rodents

[ttyo888]

Hi I just wanna discuss something.

 

I am designing some predatory rodents which I need some scientific fact to support the design of the teeth. As you can see the Rodent skull hasn't changed much for millions of years in fact they all look very similar.

 

If let say Rodents are to become more effective hunters when kind of shape of their teeth they will need to adopt in order to make carnivorans make a run for their money?

 

And also can a mammal's molar or incisor change shape if evolution allows?

Example, a flat molar into a shearing knife edge

 

Thank you

[jake.com]

Hi I just wanna discuss something.

 

I am designing some predatory rodents which I need some scientific fact to support the design of the teeth. As you can see the Rodent skull hasn't changed much for millions of years in fact they all look very similar.

 

If let say Rodents are to become more effective hunters when kind of shape of their teeth they will need to adopt in order to make carnivorans make a run for their money?

 

And also can a mammal's molar or incisor change shape if evolution allows?

Example, a flat molar into a shearing knife edge

 

Thank you

 

With a rodent's already strong jaws, all they would have to do is develop strong molars.

[ttyo888]

But the incisors that make Rodents so successful in the first place, won't they need to change or modified they to make they sharper or maybe they just have to get bigger?

[Mokele]

Actually, there are several, including this one.

 

I can attest from direct, painful experience that the incisors of mice and rats are very capable of penetrating flesh.

 

As for the molars, it depends on the sort of carnivore - if they're taking small prey, it may not matter much. Indeed, most lizards are carnivores, usually feeding on small prey, and most have no molars at all.

 

Also, evolution can rapidly induce changes in tooth shape in mammals - consider whales, which fairly rapidly went from a set of teeth rather similar to modern carnivores to a set of almost reptilian conical teeth.

[jake.com]

Actually, there are several, including this one.

 

I can attest from direct, painful experience that the incisors of mice and rats are very capable of penetrating flesh.

 

As for the molars, it depends on the sort of carnivore - if they're taking small prey, it may not matter much. Indeed, most lizards are carnivores, usually feeding on small prey, and most have no molars at all.

 

Also, evolution can rapidly induce changes in tooth shape in mammals - consider whales, which fairly rapidly went from a set of teeth rather similar to modern carnivores to a set of almost reptilian conical teeth.

 

Sure, if rats are eating insects and spiders they won't need to develope their teeth much. If they are hunting other rats or bird, though, they would need to evolve strong molars. Pretty much rats would evolve to look something like a small version of a beaver, without the tail and, ya know, the herbivorous tendencies.

[Mokele]

Adult rats are more than capable of devouring their own kind - I've seen it happen, and there's very little left. They even seem to devour the bones.

 

My point is, they aren't exactly poorly equipped to begin with, so modifications would probably only need to be minor. You're probably thinking of the highly modified carnasials of Carnivora, but lots of other mammals manage to do just fine with less specialize molars, especially if you look back among the extinct mammals.

[ttyo888]

I see

 

Okay I managed to find some creatures that have teeth that are almost rodent like. in other words they grow continuously, able to gnaw.etc

 

Aye Aye

 

Thylacoleo

This one is pretty fearsome as so to speak but is it possible for the rodent to turn it's molars into steak knifes? This one has been chosen but I need another teeth design to make my carnivorous rodents more interesting and fearsome.

 

But the one I am most interested is the Thylacosmilus the sabertooth marsupial. the creature only has two lower incisors and no upper incisors. the two sabre tooths grow continously like rodent's incisors. The lack of upper incisors seem a bit odd. how does he eat without upper incisors?

Edited April 5, 2009 by ttyo888

[cameron marical]

Metal!!!

[GDG]

According to this

, they need no modification at all.

[jake.com]

According to this

, they need no modification at all.

 

That's kinda sick.

[GDG]

That's kinda sick.

 

"Nature, red in tooth and claw." (Alfred Lord Tennyson)

[jake.com]

"Nature, red in tooth and claw." (Alfred Lord Tennyson)

 

Nature is savage, but human's aren't supposed to be. Why would a cameraman sit by and let that happen. There isn't a plausible expirement that I could think of that would require mice to slaughter baby birds.

[GDG]

Nature is savage, but human's aren't supposed to be. Why would a cameraman sit by and let that happen. There isn't a plausible expirement that I could think of that would require mice to slaughter baby birds.

 

It was not an experiment, but an observation. No human set this up (at least not deliberately). It was discovered when researchers noticed that the seabird population was crashing, and went to find out why.

[jake.com]

It was not an experiment, but an observation. No human set this up (at least not deliberately). It was discovered when researchers noticed that the seabird population was crashing, and went to find out why.

 

"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" ~Edmund Burke

 

Same policy applies.

[Mokele]

Why is it bad? You just favor the bird over the mouse. From the mouse's perspective, it's good.

 

Give one good reason why we should favor one over the other? Nature clearly doesn't.

[jake.com]

Why is it bad? You just favor the bird over the mouse. From the mouse's perspective, it's good.

 

Give one good reason why we should favor one over the other? Nature clearly doesn't.

 

I know, I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. I do favor the birds over the mice though.

[GDG]

I know, I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. I do favor the birds over the mice though.

 

For that matter, we really don't know what the cameraman (or camerawoman) did after he/she shot that footage.

 

Personally, I see no point in taking either side (mouse or bird). Those of us who keep pet cats probably account for a much greater impact on the bird population.

[Sisyphus]

"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" ~Edmund Burke

 

Same policy applies.

 

You're right. From now on, I'm not letting mice starve when there are perfectly edible young birds just out of their reach.

[jake.com]

You're right. From now on, I'm not letting mice starve when there are perfectly edible young birds just out of their reach.

 

Thanks . lolz